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Old 03-05-2013, 01:56 AM   #21
Wynne-R
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I was once served a Guinness that had a small head but was completely flat. Weird. It turns out the regulator was bad and there was zero pressure on the CO2.

 
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choosybeggar View Post
I'm scientific but not engineering minded. If someone could design plans for a piston device to push beer through a stout tap, I be interested in making one, performing experiments and publishing. Fun!
I'm picturing a bike pump where instead of pulling in air you have it submerged in beer. it might be a waste of beer, though, so not sure if it would be worth it, but there might be a way of getting the beer into the inlet without fully submerging it.

 
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:32 AM   #23
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It seems like you could test this in a straightforward manner by having a bladder inside a keg. If the beer was carbed to a normal level, and then placed in the bladder, you could pressurize the outside of the bladder with high pressure to get a similar effect without any gas exchange. If the results are the same as beer gas, then the nitrogen doesn't play a role. Any takers?

 
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:55 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zymurph
It seems like you could test this in a straightforward manner by having a bladder inside a keg. If the beer was carbed to a normal level, and then placed in the bladder, you could pressurize the outside of the bladder with high pressure to get a similar effect without any gas exchange. If the results are the same as beer gas, then the nitrogen doesn't play a role. Any takers?
The only bladder I typically associate with beer is my urinary bladder

Sounds like a possibility. Any specific instructions/product recommendations? Assuming I use a corny keg, how would one differentially carb the beer versus inflate the bladder.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:04 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattd2

Beer engine with a hose attached... now you just got to drop the $100-$200 on a beer engine
I think they have one at my LHBS. perhaps they will let me borrow?
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:49 AM   #26
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Yeah, the nitrogen may or may not (I suspect not) play some minuscule role in the head formed through a stout faucet, but for all intents and purposes it is there purely to provide extra pressure. For evidence, all we have to do is look at history.

The modern stout faucet was created out of a desire to replicate, with a keg system, the creamy head found on cask beers poured with (as some have mentioned) a beer engine through a sparkler.

Simply put, the results (in terms of thick creamy head) are exactly the same.

 
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:34 AM   #27
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While you are looking into this I have a question. The bubbles that are forced back into the bottom of the glass are... I'm going to guess the nitrogen bubbles. As the CO2/ nitrogen pushes up through the bottom of the glass the space that empties is replaced by the beer which drags the nitrogen bubbles back down with it. So eventually you would have more nitrogen as the nitrogen bubbles keep recycling and CO2 escapes?

 
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:07 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iaefebs View Post
While you are looking into this I have a question. The bubbles that are forced back into the bottom of the glass are... I'm going to guess the nitrogen bubbles. As the CO2/ nitrogen pushes up through the bottom of the glass the space that empties is replaced by the beer which drags the nitrogen bubbles back down with it. So eventually you would have more nitrogen as the nitrogen bubbles keep recycling and CO2 escapes?
You're assuming there's going to be a lot of nitrogen. There's not. The only way nitrogen makes it to the tap is if it's absorbed in the beer - and very little is absorbed by the beer. Whatever small amount is absorbed in the beer surely forms bubbles but the cascading effect is caused by the restrictor plate forcing so much of the CO2 out of solution all at once and in such tiny bubbles. These bubbles rise much, much faster in the center column than around the edge of the glass, forcing the bubbles there back down.

 
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:38 PM   #29
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Debate's over already? I expected a lot more resistance. ...and a lot more quotes from old books and marketing propaganda.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:00 PM   #30
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If I argue with myself, does that count?
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