Kitchen Sink IPA

I'm a fairly inexperienced brewer. I've brewed 10 or 11 beers so far. This is my first post after months of lurking.

I'm going to brew my first IPA of my own recipe. I'll use ingredients I have since it's hard to get things where I live. I'm going for something similar to Driftwood's Fat Tug IPA: about 80 IBUs of very citrusy, tropical fruity goodness with a colour of about 11 SRM. Here's what I've come up with for a 44L batch:


20 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 76.9 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.8 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.8 %
1 lbs Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.8 %
8.0 oz Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.9 %
2 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6 7.7 %
2.00 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 38.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 9.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 25.0 min Hop 9 19.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 3.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Zeus [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs

Single Infusion Mash at 150 for 60 min.

Nottingham dry yeast or Wyeast 1056 ferment at 65 degrees

Is this malt bill appropriate? It's pretty much every specialty malt I have to try and get the colour.

Is my hop timing about right? It's all of the american-style hops I have - I wish I had more.

I was looking at faking Burton on Trent water, but it involved adding what seems like massive amounts of salts to our very soft water. Am I right to be leary of this?

Anything else that I should consider?

20 lbs Pale Malt 76.9 % (Increase)
1 lbs 8.0 oz Crystal 60L 5.8 % (Remove)
1 lbs Crystal 30L 3.8 % (Keep at same %)
1 lbs Honey Malt 3.8 % (Keep at same %)
8.0 oz Munich 10L 1.9 % (Increase)
2 lbs Corn Sugar 7.7 % (Decrease)

Those adjustments will help you limit residual sweetness and let the hops shine while still offering good malt complexity.

Maybe do something more like this with the hops:

38 IBUs Magnum @ 60 min
1.00 oz Chinook @ 15 or 10 min
2.00 oz Centennial @ 15 or 10 min
2.00 oz Cascade @ 0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo @ 0 min
2.00 oz Cascade Dryhop 7 Days
2.00 oz Zeus Dryhop 7 Days
1.00 oz Chinook Dryhop 7 Days

Go with the Wyeast 1056 Starter

What's your projected gravity for this recipe? Without knowing that, it's a little tough to tell how balanced the bitterness will be. (Yes, even in an American IPA there's a level of balance! )

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

I thought that the corn sugar would just bump up the alcohol without any residual sweetness, am I wrong about that? Also, do the higher caramel numbers finish sweeter? I thought they were just more caramel-tasting.

I like your hop schedule EyePeeA: more hops reserved for the last 20 minutes but it leaves me below where I wanted to be for IBUs. Should I drop in something else at 60 minutes? I had thought that the extra caramel might balance the higher IBUs. I fon't have any more Munich. I could try to borrow some biscuit or replace some 2 row with Pilsner. The closest LHBS is 5 hours away.

The predicted OG is 1.065, which makes the bitterness ratio 1.083. The FG, according to beersmith will be 1.009 although I always seem to finish a little lower than predicted.

Well, you're mostly right on the corn sugar - it'll bump up the alcohol without any residual sweetness, but on the flipside it'll also tend to dry things out a bit, which might actually help to counter the crystal a bit.

On the crystal, I suppose it might lend a little bit of a caramel flavor... But overall it will lend more of a general sweetness - it contributes more of an unfermentable sugar, so that'll hang around afterward, contributing to that general sweetness.

Generally, American IPA's tend to shoot more for a BU/GU ration closer to 1.0 or 1.1, so it sounds like you're pretty much right on target on that count.

I've never used Zeus myself, so I can't speak to it, but the others definitely sound like a good combo for flavor and aroma. Looking at its profile on one website I just googled, Zeus looks like a high Alpha bittering hop - personally, I'd keep that in the freezer for another brew, wereI in your shoes. Not sure it's going to add all that much here. Maybe consider dividing up that 2oz Centennial addition that EyePeeA suggested moving to 10 or 15 minutes - make it 1oz at 10 or 15 minutes, 1oz dry hop?

CTZ is great for a dry hop. It adds a bit of woodiness to the brew.

Good examples of commercial brews using it are Hog Heaven (100% CTZ) and Deviant Dales, which has it as a dry hop addition.

Yes the crystal will make the beer sweeter, however the type of sweetness you will achieve depends on the type of crystal you use. For example a 10L will you give honey, where as a 60L will give you a more complex, caramel/toasty sweetness. I hate 10L for this reason, especially when paired with american hops. It's like putting honey on an orange -- doesnt work.

I disagree. I hate the darker crystals in AIPA's. The toasty dark caramel flavors obstruct the hop focus and you end up having more of an amber than a highly hoppy and dry West Coast Style of an IPA. You don't really even need crystal malt at all in AIPAs. But when I use them, I like the lighter grades, or honey malt.

I think with the amount of crystal and honey malt currently in there it would come out cloyingly sweet for an IPA. In addition, the corn sugar would increase the alcohol and unless the beer was hopped into oblivion the taste would be sweet malt with perceived alcohol sweetness/warmth and some hop flavor in the background. I could see it tasting like a small barleywine.

I would agree with EyePeeA on the crystal. If you want a certain crystal malt characteristic in your IPA, choose one and stick with only a few percent of it. C-40 is a common choice, but great IPAs are made without crystal completely. If you want to keep it either get rid of the C-30 and have 3.8% of C-60 or get rid of the C-60 and have 3.8% of C-30. The honey malt should stay where it is as well if you want that honey malt character in the beer. At 11 SRM I would assume you favor the darker crystals a bit so I'd choose the C-60. I haven't personally used darker Munich malt, but at 1.9% I would bet it can be left out of an IPA. If you want that toasted bready character, consider splitting some vienna, maris otter, or lighter munich with your base malt if you have some available.

As for the sugar, just use enough (if any is needed at all) to get it down to about 1.011 FG. Like I said before, with more alcohol, there will be a higher perceived alcohol sweetness. In my experience it can be detrimental to an IPA and really take away from the character of it.

The hop timing seems fine to me. I would up the 0 minute addition quite a bit and perform a 40 minute hop steep after the boil. Shut off the flame, throw in the addition and let it steep. You can very roughly count this addition as a 15 minute boil addition IBU wise. If you haven't been doing this already, you'll notice quite a difference in the flavor.

Yeast wise I would hands down choose 1056 (if you could make an adequate starter). If you don't have the ability to make a starter I would rehydrate and pitch Nottingham, but keep it in the low 60's (actual fermentation temperature) for the first 48-72 hours of fermentation. Nottingham ester formation at higher temperatures can be brutal in my experience. After that, I'd ramp up a degree (F) a day until I was at the upper range of the yeast. Low 70's most likely and leave it there until primary was done.

I wouldn't really go for a Burton on Trent water profile. A more reasonable profile is Bru'nwater's pale ale profile or look up Tasty's water profile for his pale ales. If you haven't done water adjustments and don't really have the time to do some in depth reading on it before brew day, I'd look up the Water Chemistry Primer here on the board and follow that adjustment using RO water for your first time.

Good luck!

EyePeeA said:

I disagree. I hate the darker crystals in AIPA's. The toasty dark caramel flavors obstruct the hop focus and you end up having more of an amber than a highly hoppy and dry West Coast Style of an IPA. You don't really even need crystal malt at all in AIPAs. But when I use them, I like the lighter grades, or honey malt.

Click to expand...

After some not-so scientific experimentation, I definitely agree with this. Higher lov crystals definitely obscue the hop profile if used in significant quantity. I have been going to a 2-row/Munich only stance with hoppy beers lately and been pretty happy. Maybe some low lov crystal in APAs.

I agree that might be a lot of crystal but I think it would work fine as long as you like a sweet, malty ipa. I would cut the honey malt in half though. The the other specialty grains are going to give you lots of sweetness and body. Honey malt is great by should be used in moderation.

I've decided to reduce the crystal. I don't want a hoppy amber ale, that wouldn't be crisp enough.

I have to admit that I bought the honey malt by mistake. Does it really taste like honey? I've seen descriptions online of a raisin-y taste which is not appealing to me.

Jwood, does the steeping time include chilling time? Also, does this method still maintain the aroma of later additions, or do you get more flavour instead?

Honey malt can give a very good actual honey flavor if used in the right proportions in the right recipe but too much can give you a raisin like flavor. I would describe it as more of a sharp sweetness that can overpower much of the other ingredients. I do a honey ipa and never go over around 5% of the grain bill and it comes out awesome. Since you already have a good deal of crystal you won't need a lot for some honey sweetness. I'd cut it in half or leave it out.

The steeping time does not include chilling time for the flame-out hops. You end up chilling down below the AA isomerization temperature so fast that the extra time won't make a difference. If I remember correctly, the temperature where AA isomerization stops is about 170-175 degrees F. You'll notice after 40 minutes that you are already closer to that temperature anyways (depending on where you are in the world and what the ambient temperature is like).

These additions add more flavor than anything (I do notice a little more aroma after primaries as well though). However, I've never noticed huge aroma from any beer after primary fermentation. Dry-hopping is a necessity for aroma in pale ales and IPA's and will get you what you are looking for. No late addition (or at least no reasonable amount) can compare to a dry hop aroma wise.

Have a recipe revision to post? I'm curious to see where you are at!

Thanks everyone for all the great info. I brewed today. Here's what I did.

I brought the water to
57ppm calcium
6.2 magnesium
118.2 sulfate
22.7 chloride
23 bicarbonate

then...
20 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 79.2 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 5.9 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 7 5.9 %
8.0 oz Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 8 2.0 %
4.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 9 1.0 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 10 5.9 %
1.75 oz Magnum [16.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 11 40.6 IBUs
1.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 12.2 IBUs
2.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 13 -
1.00 oz Cascade [8.30 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 14 4.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [12.10 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 3.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.35 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.5 pkg Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 18 -
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 ml] Yeast 19 -
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Zeus [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 21 0.0 IBUs

Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.9 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.8 %
Bitterness: 61.2 IBUs Calories: 582.4 kcal/l
Est Color: 8.6 SRM

I mashed for a little over an hour at 150 and hit my OG right on at 1.062 (76.3% efficiency which is high for me)
It tasted great so far.

I know that 14 days of dry hopping is long, but I've never been able to taste this "grassy" flavour everyone talks about.

I think I'll carbonate at 2.4 volumes.

That beer turned out great! It was a teeny bit too malty, and not quite as bitter as I would have liked but delicious nonetheless. Oh, and as the dry hopping wore off there was a slight alcohol note to the aroma.

After reading all the comments, I was curious about how much more hop flavour and bitterness I would get in a paler beer and I decided to try a very pale american pale ale with lots of late hop additions - like this:

40L Batch

1.97 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
1.49 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
0.59 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
0.10 g Chalk (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 5 -

17 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 94.4 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 7 2.8 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8 2.8 %

0.69 oz Galena [12.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 19.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Cascade [5.60 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 6.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Cascade [5.60 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 4.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Cascade [5.60 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 ml] Yeast 13 -
2.00 oz Cascade [5.60 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Zythos [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs

This "pale ale" turned out just as hoppy as the IPA. Huge hop flavour and aroma. I found that the lack of residual sweetness made the bitterness just a little harsh. It made me realize I need to pay a lot more attention to the bitterness ratio of my beers.

Last beer I made in late spring was a kitchen sink brew,where I literally used up all my ingredients. Turned out to be something between a black IPA and a Foreign stout. Turned out pretty good.