Temp affects sugar amount? - Home Brew Forums

 Home Brew Forums > Temp affects sugar amount?

02-14-2013, 06:29 PM   #1
Evan_L
Recipes

Nov 2012
Willimantic, CT
Posts: 461
Liked 82 Times on 56 Posts

Punched #'s into Beersmith to calculate amount of sugar I need to add for bottling.

At 5G, I need 3.05oz to carb to 2.6 vol.

But then I noticed it was set to 40* storage temp, as they will bottle condition at 68* I put that in and the amount of sugar jumped to 4.66oz, seems almost counterintuitive. Why is it that more/less sugar would be required for a change in temp?

02-14-2013, 06:48 PM   #2
slarkin712

Recipes

Sep 2011
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 796
Liked 61 Times on 51 Posts

I don't have Beersmith, or know how to use, but I do understand priming. When beer is fermenting obviously CO2 is produced and dissolved into the beer. At a lower temperature more CO2 will dissolve into the beer. So if the beer at bottling time has more CO2 in solution it will require less priming sugar to get the desired amount of CO2. I use the priming sugar calculator at Northern Brewer. It has a field "Current temperature of beer", which affects how much priming sugar is needed. I don't think current temperature of beer is really accurate on judging how much CO2 is in solution. For example, if you ferment an ale at 70F until it is completely fermented out, it will have a certain amount of CO2 in solution which is related to temperature. If you then drop the temp down to 40F to cold crash it does not magically gain more CO2 in solution because of the temperature, it just has more potential to hold CO2 in solution. Atmospheric CO2 will dissolve into solution at lower temps, but that concentration is not as high as what you get from CO2 in solution from fermentation. So when I enter the temp value into the priming sugar calculator I use the temp the beer was at just at the end of fermentation. Some say you enter the highest temp the beer was at during fermentation, but usually these 2 values are pretty close. And bottle conditioning temperature should have no bearing on your final volume of CO2. When you add priming sugar it will add a known volume of CO2 to the bottle regardless of what temperature it is at. All the priming sugar added at bottling will be consumed by the yeast remaining in solution as long as the temperature is high enough so that the yeast are active.

Hopper5000 Likes This
02-14-2013, 07:49 PM   #3
Evan_L
Recipes

Nov 2012
Willimantic, CT
Posts: 461
Liked 82 Times on 56 Posts

Thanks, makes sense!

02-15-2013, 01:08 AM   #4
krduckman

Recipes

Aug 2011
Fayetteville, GA
Posts: 202
Liked 16 Times on 13 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by slarkin712 I don't have Beersmith, or know how to use, but I do understand priming. When beer is fermenting obviously CO2 is produced and dissolved into the beer. At a lower temperature more CO2 will dissolve into the beer. So if the beer at bottling time has more CO2 in solution it will require less priming sugar to get the desired amount of CO2. I use the priming sugar calculator at Northern Brewer. It has a field "Current temperature of beer", which affects how much priming sugar is needed. I don't think current temperature of beer is really accurate on judging how much CO2 is in solution. For example, if you ferment an ale at 70F until it is completely fermented out, it will have a certain amount of CO2 in solution which is related to temperature. If you then drop the temp down to 40F to cold crash it does not magically gain more CO2 in solution because of the temperature, it just has more potential to hold CO2 in solution. Atmospheric CO2 will dissolve into solution at lower temps, but that concentration is not as high as what you get from CO2 in solution from fermentation. So when I enter the temp value into the priming sugar calculator I use the temp the beer was at just at the end of fermentation. Some say you enter the highest temp the beer was at during fermentation, but usually these 2 values are pretty close. And bottle conditioning temperature should have no bearing on your final volume of CO2. When you add priming sugar it will add a known volume of CO2 to the bottle regardless of what temperature it is at. All the priming sugar added at bottling will be consumed by the yeast remaining in solution as long as the temperature is high enough so that the yeast are active.
Now I know. Learn something today. Thought I would go all day without learning.

03-06-2013, 08:59 PM   #5
captgus

Recipes

Nov 2011
santa barbara, ca
Posts: 81
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

I have a related question I was hoping someone could answer? If you cold crash your beer prior to bottling, what temp should you allow your corn syrup/water solution to chill to before adding to the beer in your bottling bucket? Or does it even matter if the beer is 50 degrees and the priming sugar solution is 80 degrees?

03-06-2013, 09:03 PM   #6
TyTanium
Recipes

Nov 2011
Posts: 3,952
Liked 557 Times on 392 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by captgus I have a related question I was hoping someone could answer? If you cold crash your beer prior to bottling, what temp should you allow your corn syrup/water solution to chill to before adding to the beer in your bottling bucket? Or does it even matter if the beer is 50 degrees and the priming sugar solution is 80 degrees?
Doesn't matter, it's such a small amount. Sometimes when I'm impatient I toss it right in w/out cooling. And sometimes I don't even boil (shhhh...)

03-07-2013, 03:14 AM   #7
captgus

Recipes

Nov 2011
santa barbara, ca
Posts: 81
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Well then here goes nothing.

03-07-2013, 03:51 AM   #8
jwalker1140
Recipes

Sep 2011
Glendale, CA
Posts: 586
Liked 64 Times on 48 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by slarkin712 I don't have Beersmith, or know how to use, but I do understand priming. When beer is fermenting obviously CO2 is produced and dissolved into the beer. At a lower temperature more CO2 will dissolve into the beer. So if the beer at bottling time has more CO2 in solution it will require less priming sugar to get the desired amount of CO2. I use the priming sugar calculator at Northern Brewer. It has a field "Current temperature of beer", which affects how much priming sugar is needed. I don't think current temperature of beer is really accurate on judging how much CO2 is in solution. For example, if you ferment an ale at 70F until it is completely fermented out, it will have a certain amount of CO2 in solution which is related to temperature. If you then drop the temp down to 40F to cold crash it does not magically gain more CO2 in solution because of the temperature, it just has more potential to hold CO2 in solution. Atmospheric CO2 will dissolve into solution at lower temps, but that concentration is not as high as what you get from CO2 in solution from fermentation. So when I enter the temp value into the priming sugar calculator I use the temp the beer was at just at the end of fermentation. Some say you enter the highest temp the beer was at during fermentation, but usually these 2 values are pretty close. And bottle conditioning temperature should have no bearing on your final volume of CO2. When you add priming sugar it will add a known volume of CO2 to the bottle regardless of what temperature it is at. All the priming sugar added at bottling will be consumed by the yeast remaining in solution as long as the temperature is high enough so that the yeast are active.
This is a great explanation. The related issue I'm dealing with is that the amount of CO2 that remains in solution seems to also be a function of how long the beer sits before bottling. Normally I wait three weeks before bottling, and that gives me pretty consistent results. Recently I tried bottling a few batches after two weeks and they were way over carbonated. I guess the extra weeks allows more CO2 to come out of solution. Maybe there are other factors at play but I've since gone back to bottling in ~3 weeks because I like the consistency that seems to give me.

03-07-2013, 03:53 AM   #9
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!

Recipes

Jun 2006
UP of Michigan, Winter Texan
Posts: 70,019
Liked 8166 Times on 5691 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jwalker1140 This is a great explanation. The related issue I'm dealing with is that the amount of CO2 that remains in solution seems to also be a function of how long the beer sits before bottling. Normally I wait three weeks before bottling, and that gives me pretty consistent results. Recently I tried bottling a few batches after two weeks and they were way over carbonated. I guess the extra weeks gives more CO2 to come out of solution. Maybe there are other factors at play but I've since gone back to bottling in ~3 weeks because I like the consistency that seems to give me.
That doesn't seem right- once fermentation is done, and no new c02 is created, whether it sits for two hours or two weeks wouldn't change the dissolved c02. It's definitely temperature related, but not time related.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006

03-07-2013, 04:04 AM   #10
jwalker1140
Recipes

Sep 2011
Glendale, CA
Posts: 586
Liked 64 Times on 48 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Yooper That doesn't seem right- once fermentation is done, and no new c02 is created, whether it sits for two hours or two weeks wouldn't change the dissolved c02. It's definitely temperature related, but not time related.
But doesn't CO2 come out of solution gradually on it's own, regardless of temperature? I'm thinking about wine as it ages (granted, this happens over a much longer period than the week or so I'm talking about), or even an opened beer that's left out over night. When I taste my beer as fermentation is ending, I taste much more CO2 than I do when I bottle a couple weeks later even though the temperature hasn't changed.