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Old 02-13-2013, 11:25 PM   #1
agentEhrman
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I got the dreaded butter/butter scotch flavor in my first Lager (Marzen). Fermentation took off and was done in less than a week with the saflager 34/70 sitting right at 50 degrees. After two weeks in the primary, I wanted to pitch a dopplebock on top of the built up yeast cake. I took the beer out of the fermentation chamber and gave it a taste. It tasted great! I have read that you only need to do a D rest if the butter/butter scotch flavor is detectable and it wasn't at the time. So, off to the keg for my marzen to make room for my dopplebock. Smart thinking on my part, or at least that's what I was thinking..

It's only been 2 weeks in the keg, but I really wanted to give this new beer a try so I did. YUCK! Tons of butter. Obviously, I should have done a D rest.

Now I'm wondering how I can get out of this mess without dumping 5 gallons of highly anticipated beer down the drain. I will be transferring the dopplebock to a keg sometime soon (after a D rest) and I will have that same yeast available to me. I might scoop a little out and try adding it to the beer back in another fermentor, then letting it do it's thing, hopefully cleaning up the diacetyl eventually. Think it will work?

Any other ideas to save my beer?
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Well, I think that you meant "oz" not "lbs"
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:39 PM   #2
sweetcell
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after the dopplebock that yeast will be pretty beat up. adding it to an alcoholic environment (even though it's weaker than the one it just left) isn't going to encourage the yeast to get munching. diacetyl can be absorbed by yeast but only once they been activated and have gotten into eating mode. you're not doing anything to get them munching first.

i would suggest making a starter with some fresh yeast and pitching it at high krausen. or brew another batch, and when its fermentation is peaking grab some of that beer and add it to your butter-batch. might even want to add a little fresh wort (or extract) to that mix so that the new arrivals have something to eat and don't break their stride. ferment towards the warm end of the yeast's range, preferably warmer than the batch it came from, and don't forget to do an even warmer D rest.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:46 PM   #3
agentEhrman
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Thanks, sweetcell. Any chance that I could get by with an ale yeast for this?
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Well, I think that you meant "oz" not "lbs"
Did you brew this from the couch on your porch?

 
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:36 AM   #4
sweetcell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentEhrman View Post
Thanks, sweetcell. Any chance that I could get by with an ale yeast for this?
sure, an ale yeast will work. i would probably be easier to use, temp-wise. i didn't suggest it because i thought you were trying to remain true-to-style (lager), but it's occurred to me that you're mostly trying to save this beer and a few ale characteristics would be a lot better than the current state of affairs.
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What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?
- Drinking: ECY20 rye sour, local sour cherry kriek #2, Imperial Chocolate Milk Stout (half on vanilla, half on coconut), sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine
- Aging: English Barleywine on brett, 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:49 AM   #5
agentEhrman
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05 is only $4 at LHBS, but I would rather take the time to fix this the right way if I'm going to do it. I guess I assume the 05 won't really leave a footprint.. What are your thoughts on that?

Thanks
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Well, I think that you meant "oz" not "lbs"
Did you brew this from the couch on your porch?

 
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:12 PM   #6
sweetcell
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yup, if you're going to do with dry yeast then US-05 is an excellent choice. the liquid versions of the same chico strain (WLP001/WY1056) are supposedly a bit cleaner.

a kolsch yeast is another option. no matter what you choose to use, start off at the cool end of the recommended range and ramp up a few degrees after a day or two.
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What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?
- Drinking: ECY20 rye sour, local sour cherry kriek #2, Imperial Chocolate Milk Stout (half on vanilla, half on coconut), sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine
- Aging: English Barleywine on brett, 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:05 PM   #7
agentEhrman
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does it matter that this beer is already carbed??
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Well, I think that you meant "oz" not "lbs"
Did you brew this from the couch on your porch?

 
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:21 PM   #8
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i *believe* that you'll need to un-carb it - bleed out the pressure from the keg and let it equalize with ambient. that much CO2 isn't healthy for yeast.
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What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?
- Drinking: ECY20 rye sour, local sour cherry kriek #2, Imperial Chocolate Milk Stout (half on vanilla, half on coconut), sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine
- Aging: English Barleywine on brett, 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:40 PM   #9
agentEhrman
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Good call, that makes sense
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Did you brew this from the couch on your porch?

 
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