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Old 02-13-2013, 02:01 PM   #1
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Default Skip bittering hops = No need for 60 minute boil?

During a tour of a local brewery, their brewer revealed that they don't use any bittering hops for their APA (my favorite beer of theirs). I'm trying to duplicate this beer at home, and I got to thinking - Does a recipe that only uses flavor and aroma hops still need a 60 minute boil? Or could I get away with a 15-minute boil?

I know the purpose of the boil is to sanitize the wort, extract hop oils, and drive off DMS. But 15 minutes is more than enough time to sanitize the wort, and if I don't care about converting alpha acids into bittering compounds, do I still need to boil for a full 60 minutes? If I'm just using plain 2-row malt (I know Pilsener malt requires a 90-minute boil to drive of DMS precursors), is 15 minutes enough to stave off DMS?

Am I missing something here? If I just did a 15 minute boil with hop additions at 15 and 0, what would I end up with? A ton of DMS? Or just more free time?


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Old 02-13-2013, 02:11 PM   #2
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I can't comment much on the dms issue with 2row for a short boil, but I will mention your grain bill would need to account for the lack of boil off. You would need more grain and less sparge water to get your desired og and keep your volume in check.

Also, I'm not exactly sure what else us going on in the brew kettle besides evaporation and hop extraction. There's probably something though I'm guessing.

Interested to see what others have to say.


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Old 02-13-2013, 06:33 PM   #3
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More goes on then just bittering in the boil. The boil makes your hot break. Less boil will likely produce a more hazy product, among other things.

My last batch was a hop burst mild. All the hops went in for 15 minutes. Though I did boil for 45 minutes before that. As a general rule, I always boil at least an hour.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeber View Post
More goes on then just bittering in the boil. The boil makes your hot break. Less boil will likely produce a more hazy product, among other things.
But the hot break happens in the first few minutes of the boil. After the hot break settles down and you do your first hop addition, is there any further benefit as far as break material goes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beeber View Post
As a general rule, I always boil at least an hour.
Right. We all do. That's the conventional wisdom. Just like 20 years ago, the conventional wisdom had us all using secondary fermenters that we now know are unnecessary. I'm just wondering if there's any reason to boil for 60 minutes if you don't need to convert those bittering oils.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:26 PM   #5
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I think its more a practice with extract brewers, malt is already mashed and concentrated so techniqly for no bittering additions you could only boil 15-20 to sanitize.

I think what your going to have is cooked corn beer though. Dimethyl sulfides are created when the wort is heated, so once to a boil and hot break is present, so is DMS. This is why a 60min boil is required. Pilsner malt just have more DMS precursors that have to be driven off than 2-row
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:28 PM   #6
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I am no expert on chemical reactions, but there's plenty out there...

http://morebeer.com/articles/kettle_reactions
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:32 PM   #7
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All grain brewers should be boiling for at least 40 minutes. I believe that is the half life of DMS.

Here is a snippet from the web on boiling wort:

Boiling wort is normally required for the following reasons:

1. Extracts, isomerizes and dissolves the hop α-acids
2. Stops enzymatic activity
3. Kills bacteria, fungi, and wild yeast
4. Coagulates undesired proteins and polyphenols in the hot break
5. Evaporates undesirable harsh hop oils, sulfur compounds, ketones, and esters.
6. Promotes the formation of melanoidins and caramelizes some of the wort sugars (although this is not desirable in all styles)
7. Evaporates water vapor, condensing the wort to the proper volume and gravity (this is not a primary reason, it's a side effect of the process)

A minimum of a one hour boil is usually recommended for making quality beer. When making all grain beer, a boil of 90 minutes is normal, with the bittering hops added for the last hour. One exception to boiling was historically used to brew the Berliner Weisse style. Here, the hops were added to the mash tun, and the wort is cooled after sparging and then fermented with a combination of lactobacillus from the malt and an ale yeast.

Boiling for less than one hour risks under-utilization of hop acids, so the bitterness level may be lower than expected. In addition, the head may not be as well formed due to improper extraction of isohumulones from the hops. A good rolling boil for one hour is necessary to bind hop compounds to polypeptides, forming colloids that remain in the beer and help form a good stable head. An open, rolling boil aids in the removal of undesired volatile compounds, such as some harsh hop compounds, esters, and sulfur compounds. It is important to boil wort uncovered so that these substances do not condense back into the wort.

Clarity will be also be affected by not using at least a full hour rolling boil, as there will not be a adequate hot break to remove the undesired proteins. This will also affect shelf life of the bottled beer, since the proteins will over time promote bacterial growth even in properly sanitized beer bottles. The preservative qualities of hops will also suffer greatly if the wort is not boiled for one hour, as the extraction of the needed compounds will be impaired.

Boiling wort will also lower the pH of the wort slightly. Having the proper pH to begin the boil is not normally a problem, but if it is below 5.2, protein precipitation will be retarded and carbonate salt should be used to increase the alkalinity. The pH will drop during the boil and at the conclusion should be 5.2-5.5 in order for proper cold break to form and fermentation to proceed normally. Incorrect wort pH during the boil may result in clarity or fermentation problems.

The effects of boiling on the wort should match the intended style. It is often desirable to form melanoidins which are compounds produced by heat acting on amino acids and sugars. These add a darker color and a maltier flavor to beer. When desired, an insufficient boil will not form enough melanoidins for the style. Boiling the initial runnings of high gravity wort will quickly caramelize the sugars in the wort. This is desired in Scottish ales, but would be inappropriate in light lagers.

Vigorously boiling wort uncovered will evaporate water from the wort at a rate of about one gallon per hour, depending the brewing setup. In order to create a beer with the appropriate target original gravity, changes in the wort volume must be taken into account. Longer boil times or additions of sterilized water may be required to hit the target gravity.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:37 PM   #8
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You will be fine. The hot break will have occurred, there is little DMS concern with 2-row pale malt, not hop oils to isomerize, plenty of time for sanitation. Your only issue for planning is your boil off. Just change your boil time if using BeerSmith and the appropriate changes will be made automatically in your recipe.

If your grain bill is big, you may need to boil longer to account for the volume required to sparge adequately.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:53 PM   #9
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I recently boiled for 15 minutes, with a single addition of extract and hops at the beginning of the boil. Then followed by pouring the wort straight into bottles and let it ferment there. It turned into perfect beer with hard sediment at the bottom of the bottle. Head was good, flavour was rounded and in no way gave away the extract (it was actually better beer than some of my all grains), I just can't say anything negative about it.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:40 AM   #10
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kombat, 15 minute total boils have been done. I first heard about it from Basic Brewing Radio with the 15 minute Amarillo Pale Ale recipe by James Spencer. But if you only boil 15 min you need to boil more hops to get the same bitterness, so what you gain in time, you lose in money. Also, the issues mentioned above with All grain recipes may be a problem, especially the decreased boil off, which means a lower gravity than intended. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/15-m...llo-ale-58866/

JKaranka, you mean small bottles for serving? How did you prevent bottle bombs? I'm thinking you could loosely cover the bottles but then how to carbonate? Add sugar to each and cap (extra work)? Cap when fermentation is almost done (seems risky)?


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