Predicting pH with Brun Water - Page 3 - Home Brew Forums
Register Now For Free!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Predicting pH with Brun Water

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-05-2013, 02:58 PM   #21
lockwom
Recipes 
 
Jan 2010
Falls Church, VA
Posts: 107
Liked 13 Times on 8 Posts


I double-checked with color pHast strips. Not the most reliable, but they validated my measurement when accounting for bias.

The water had plenty of calcium. And I did make measurements within the unstable period you mentioned.

BW estimated my protein rest pH to be 5.3 (fine for proteolytic enzyme range) and mash pH as 5.5.

I could have:
- mismeasured salts
- faulty protein rest pH measurement
- bad sensor

I don't have enough recorded data to challenge the model, nor enough evidence that it was not my fault. But I just wanted to mention the worthiness of having lime on hand, since properly estimating pH for the different malts is hard.

My original suspicion was that the model underestimated the crystal contribution.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 04:07 PM   #22
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
mabrungard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Feb 2011
Carmel, IN
Posts: 4,248
Liked 652 Times on 505 Posts


I haven't seen crystal malts that contribute more acidity than what the model predicts, but I have seen base malts that contribute more acidity than expected. Rahr malts seem to have this tendency. I assume they slightly acidify their malts and most brewers appreciate that since many have excess alkalinity they have to deal with.

Since this was a No-Sparge brewing case, I would have assumed that the pH value would have biased a little high and not low. I'm still scratching my head on this one.
__________________
Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brun-...?ref=bookmarks

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 04:40 PM   #23
Kaiser
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Nov 2005
Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,895
Liked 129 Times on 75 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by lockwom View Post
The water had plenty of calcium. And I did make measurements within the unstable period you mentioned.
What was the calcium content and/or RA of the water you added?

Kai

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 05:07 PM   #24
Hermit
Recipes 
 
Nov 2009
Alternate Universe
Posts: 2,281
Liked 72 Times on 61 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by mabrungard View Post
I Rahr malts seem to have this tendency. I assume they slightly acidify their malts and most brewers appreciate that since many have excess alkalinity they have to deal with.
I have wondered if they have a specific large client that they cater to in this regard.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 07:52 PM   #25
lockwom
Recipes 
 
Jan 2010
Falls Church, VA
Posts: 107
Liked 13 Times on 8 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
What was the calcium content and/or RA of the water you added?

Kai
Calcium was 51 ppm, and Mg was 5 ppm. I calculate the water had RA of -6, seemed fine for an ambery beer.

Here is what I suspect went wrong: I added the pickling lime for that batch to the mash liquor before heating it. I'm sure it was readily dissolved, but perhaps some of the pickling lime content precipitated when heated combined with some calcium content (that is, not sure it was HCO3 at the higher grain-less pH, but I still bet it it left the solution).

I've since added pickling lime to a batch with acidic grains directly after adding grains with very reliable results. But I'm not ruling out some form of mismeasurement. I'm planning on brewing a porter tomorrow, so I will try to verify my process. How long should I wait to measure pH after adding the pickling lime?

Does my explanation above sound plausible?

(Also, there was some Rahr 2-row and Weyermann Munich I in there, it could have had more acid than the "Base Malt" model in BrunWater). This year, I bought CMC 2-row to see how it compares to last year's Rahr.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 02:01 AM   #26
lockwom
Recipes 
 
Jan 2010
Falls Church, VA
Posts: 107
Liked 13 Times on 8 Posts


Even with 0.6 lbs of roasted malts, Kai and Martin's spreadsheets predicted the mash pH. Lesson learned, add the pickling lime to the mash after adding the grains.

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brun water - Pilsner Braufessor General Beer Discussion 4 11-04-2012 01:09 PM
Water report and Brun Water Lurch69 Brew Science 3 10-22-2012 11:30 PM
Keeving: chapeau brun at the bottom? sideshow_ben Cider Forum 5 09-23-2012 02:32 AM
My schwarz is more of a brun WGBrauerei Extract Brewing 0 03-08-2012 01:01 AM
Predicting / adjusting Water Temp Blaine Recipes/Ingredients 7 12-23-2005 07:50 PM


Forum Jump