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Old 01-24-2013, 08:38 PM   #1
mahossma
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Feb 2012
Collegeville, Pennsylvania
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I've read that for a Flanders Red, the Wyeast roeselare yeast blend can take >1 yr or a second fermentation on a roeselare yeast cake to get sufficient sourness. I'm toying with the idea of doing a sour mash using a Flanders Red-style grain bill, and then pitching the roeselare blend. I'm hoping after a short time (2-3 months) I'll have a nicely sour, albeit young and not as complex, Flanders Red that should improve in the bottle with age. Any thoughts?

 
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:58 AM   #2
SimonHucko
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Jun 2011
Owego, NY
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I was just thinking about this. interested to hear what more experienced sour brewers have to say

 
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:47 AM   #3
JoeLindley
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Jun 2012
St. Louis, MO
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I was thinking the same thing, maybe with a Saison yeast like 3724 at 90F and then a sour bug blend like roeselare, 3763.

 
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:02 PM   #4
TNGabe
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Aug 2012
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I would think you'll still have some ropiness or other unpleasantness going on after such a short time. If you want a quick sour mash beer, you can have berliner weiss in a week if you keg or two weeks in bottles. You can drink that while you patiently wait for your more complex sours to mature.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:16 PM   #5
SimonHucko
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Jun 2011
Owego, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNGabe View Post
I would think you'll still have some ropiness or other unpleasantness going on after such a short time. If you want a quick sour mash beer, you can have berliner weiss in a week if you keg or two weeks in bottles. You can drink that while you patiently wait for your more complex sours to mature.
ah, forgot about pedio, good point. I suppose you could sour and then pitch brett only (or ferment clean and finish with brett). seems like that would come in somewhere between a berliner weiss and a more complex aged sour

 
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #6
mahossma
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Feb 2012
Collegeville, Pennsylvania
Posts: 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNGabe View Post
I would think you'll still have some ropiness or other unpleasantness going on after such a short time. If you want a quick sour mash beer, you can have berliner weiss in a week if you keg or two weeks in bottles. You can drink that while you patiently wait for your more complex sours to mature.
So it sounds like at least if I am patient for a year or so I can use a sour mash + roeselare fermentation strategy to ensure I get sufficient sourness in my Flanders Red. Correct?

I do like the idea of sour mash + Brett fermentation, and I actually wanted to use WLP 644 Brett Trios for this after reading reports of it used in all Brett fermentations, but have discovered it was only available last summer and doesn't look like it will be released this year according to the 2103 platinum strain schedule on the WLP website. Any suggestions for an alternative yeast strain (Brett or Sacch) that, similar to Brett Trois will ferment fairly quickly and provide some complimentary complexity for a sour?

 
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:58 PM   #7
berebrando
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Dec 2010
Orange, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahossma View Post
So it sounds like at least if I am patient for a year or so I can use a sour mash + roeselare fermentation strategy to ensure I get sufficient sourness in my Flanders Red. Correct?

I do like the idea of sour mash + Brett fermentation, and I actually wanted to use WLP 644 Brett Trios for this after reading reports of it used in all Brett fermentations, but have discovered it was only available last summer and doesn't look like it will be released this year according to the 2103 platinum strain schedule on the WLP website. Any suggestions for an alternative yeast strain (Brett or Sacch) that, similar to Brett Trois will ferment fairly quickly and provide some complimentary complexity for a sour?
Per the White Labs website, Trois will be added to the year-round collection - http://yeastbuddy.wordpress.com/2012...llensis-trois/

Also, I think you will get a similar character out of a 100% Brett brux fermentation.

 
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:37 PM   #8
weremichael
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Feb 2006
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I too think your beer would get sick when it went through the pedio stage of fermentation if you're using Roselare. Also, the folks who are telling you to do a sour mash/brett beer are definitely onto something. I have a sour mash berliner weisse aging with some brett and I think it will be really good by summer time.

 
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:48 PM   #9
toddq
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Jun 2007
Bellingham, WA
Posts: 10

I did something similar a year ago with great results. I made an 8 gal batch of Flanders Red with a pretty high mash temp as 5 gal was going in a club barrel with Roselare. But the extra 3 gal I split off post-sparge/pre-boil and made a quick sour (add lacto, hold warm a couple days, short boil, clean ferment). But then after drinking half of that, I added some Russian River Consecration dregs and let it sit for 4 months and it got really really nice. I've been meaning to experiment more with the technique ever since, but haven't gotten around to it.

 
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:38 PM   #10
mahossma
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Feb 2012
Collegeville, Pennsylvania
Posts: 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddq View Post
I did something similar a year ago with great results. I made an 8 gal batch of Flanders Red with a pretty high mash temp as 5 gal was going in a club barrel with Roselare. But the extra 3 gal I split off post-sparge/pre-boil and made a quick sour (add lacto, hold warm a couple days, short boil, clean ferment). But then after drinking half of that, I added some Russian River Consecration dregs and let it sit for 4 months and it got really really nice. I've been meaning to experiment more with the technique ever since, but haven't gotten around to it.
Sounds encouraging! I'll definitely try the sour mash + 100% Brett route first. Most likely Brett Trios. Any idea what Brett strain Russian River uses? In their Consecration bottle log, it says "Rockpile/Brettanomyces", so there is some Sacch in there too. Anyone tried a 100% Brett fermentation with something other than a Brett Brux strain?

 
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