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Old 01-24-2013, 03:00 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgarlic View Post

Granted, these were lab results, not garage brewing results. And the DO level of 25 ppm is incomparable to the 4-5 that could be had by shaking, IF there were oxygen in the headspace of a fermenting carboy. BUT... the notion that delayed introduction of oxygen may be beneficial in higher gravity fermentation really cannot be so easily dismissed. And when brewing a big ol' Belgian and looking for full attenuation, I'll use every trick I can.
Absolutely, and I think that's important to note.

The key there though is actually oxygenating, and "higher gravity fermentation". I don't think swirling the fermenter at day 5 counts, though, as either "higher gravity fermentation" or "oxygenation", since it's in a closed container and we don't know if this is indeed a higher gravity beer. Also, not that those words are "MAY be beneficial". Also, they say they reach a quicker attenuation, and not necessarily a LOWER attenuation! Even in this case, there are no absolutes.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:17 AM   #32
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Yes, Yooper, I used the "may" advisedly. I posted the quote not to prove anything at all, but only as a counterpoint to the glib responses that so often characterize defense of dogma.

I have added pure O2 to BIG Belgians at 12-18 hours with no apparent ill-effects, and who knows what benefit (no control for comparison). I'll continue to do so, because it makes sense to me that the yeast, which would otherwise turn to anaerobic fermentation in an oxygen-depleted environment will, with an additional shot of O2, continue to reproduce.

 
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:41 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgarlic View Post
Yes, Yooper, I used the "may" advisedly. I posted the quote not to prove anything at all, but only as a counterpoint to the glib responses that so often characterize defense of dogma.

I have added pure O2 to BIG Belgians at 12-18 hours with no apparent ill-effects, and who knows what benefit (no control for comparison). I'll continue to do so, because it makes sense to me that the yeast, which would otherwise turn to anaerobic fermentation in an oxygen-depleted environment will, with an additional shot of O2, continue to reproduce.
Sure, but that is pretty clearly not what the OP was talking about. If you started a thread describing the above, I highly doubt you'd get glib responses in defense of dogma. That seems pretty well thought out and rational.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:18 PM   #34
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Let me get some coffee this morning. I have a question on these subject.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:58 PM   #35
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I don't see how swirling early in the fermentation would make any difference. In my experience, during the first few days of fermentation, the beer is swirling itself just fine, with the action of the escaping CO2 gasses causing the beer to churn itself, all on its own. Everything is already being mixed quite well just from the internal currents of the yeast doing its thing.

Later on, after fermentation has finished, I suppose swirling might potentially rouse the dormant yeast to eke out another point of gravity, but the OP was asking about swirling in those first few days, not later.

 
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:29 PM   #36
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No it won't hurt it done it many many times(back in my carboy days)...some times helps to rouse yeast that settled out to soon. I can't do it now though unless I want to give myself a heart attack or spend some time a the chiropractors.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:34 PM   #37
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The question I have is, how is oxygen getting into all the fermenters and people are not getting riddled with infection? When my beer fermenting, the internal pressures of the fermenter is a lot higher than the outside atmosphere, so I never get any oxygen inside my ferms. No madder what I do. When thinking about it that would really be impossible, unless you are open fermenting or have some unwanted hole in the ferm, it should be a sealed system. Even when I move the beer to keg, after hitting FG, just a little movement makes the pressure high enough to push CO2 out the lock. So I don’t see how any oxygen is getting into everyone’s systems.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:37 PM   #38
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When I add oxygen to a fermentor I do it with an O2 tank, scintered stone and a wand.

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Old 01-24-2013, 01:50 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gear101 View Post
The question I have is, how is oxygen getting into all the fermenters and people are not getting riddled with infection? When my beer fermenting, the internal pressures of the fermenter is a lot higher than the outside atmosphere, so I never get any oxygen inside my ferms. No madder what I do. When thinking about it that would really be impossible, unless you are open fermenting or have some unwanted hole in the ferm, it should be a sealed system. Even when I move the beer to keg, after hitting FG, just a little movement makes the pressure high enough to push CO2 out the lock. So I don’t see how any oxygen is getting into everyone’s systems.
That would be true of a closed system, but in some cases the lid just doesn't fit 100% airtight. (That's the subject of another thread- "why isn't my airlock bubbling?" ). During primary, enough co2 is produced that you don't even need a lid, really. But once fermentation slows down, then oxidation could become a risk I guess.

My biggest concern with swirling the fermenter is just that it's not necessary, and I'd like to keep that krausen ring out of the beer. I'm pretty careful to leave it stuck to the sides of the fermenter when I rack out of it, and when I harvest the yeast.

I think a gentle swirling would be ok and not harmful, but certainly not necessary for most beers.

Oxygenation for big beers at 12-24 hours is definitely a well-regarded practice. Also, for wines and meads.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post

My biggest concern with swirling the fermenter is just that it's not necessary, and I'd like to keep that krausen ring out of the beer. I'm pretty careful to leave it stuck to the sides of the fermenter when I rack out of it, and when I harvest the yeast.
Absolutely true!!.....Krausen is a german word, and it roughly translates to "Junky Crap" Probably a good idea to keep as much "Junky Crap" out of your beer as possible
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