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Old 01-23-2013, 01:54 PM   #1
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Default WLP570 off flavors?

I'm currently fermenting Jamil's Belgian golden strong ale (aka his version of Duvel), which features WLP570 yeast.

The plan, according to the recipe, is to start fermenting at 64 degrees, then slowly ramp up to 82 for maximum attenuation.

I'm breaking in my new fermentation chiller (a slight mod of mother of a fermentation chiller), and haven't quite managed to dial in my temperature control yet. Here's what I've had so far:

Pitched at 66 degrees. Placed carboy into chiller. Set chiller to 59 degrees, figuring that if the air was 59, the beer would be ~64. Went to bed.

Woke up five hours later, checked beer. Beer temp was 68. I had a nice, fluffy krausen. Chiller was running.

I dropped the thermostat to 55 and went to work.

Got home from work. Wy wife commented that my daughter had complained about the smell of beer. Panicked, I checked; my makeshift blowoff tube had popped off. A little krausen spilled inside the chiller, but nothing major. Replaced the tube.

Beer temp was 59 degrees!

Opened the chamber for a while to let it warm up a bit. Swapped out my ice bottles, set the thermostat to 60 degrees, went to bed.

This morning, beer temp was still 59 degrees!

Raised the thermostat to 65 degrees. Did not swap out the ice botles (which were still largely frozen, anyway).

Obviously, I have to get a handle on my chiller, but my immediate concern is that I am fermenting way too cold for this strain (White Labs says optimum is 68-75 degrees). Fermentation does not appear to have stalled, as it is still bubbling away nicely, but I wonder if I'm incurring anyoff flavors from the cold - perhaps some clove esters or similar?

Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks!


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Old 01-23-2013, 05:00 PM   #2
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http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/belgianchart.pdf


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Old 01-23-2013, 05:22 PM   #3
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Thanks for the link! Very useful.

I definitely need to get this warmed up.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:28 PM   #4
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You'll be fine. I just brewed that recipe. I think the recipe needs some work.

It's got way too much sugar. I did 85/15 pils/sugar. It attenuated too much. Mashed at 65.5C for an hour. 1.074 OG, 1.006 FG after 2 months. It will tick off 2 or 3 gravity points while you lager it. It takes an eternity for the yeast to clear. At least 6 weeks for me.

It has a perfumely alcohol burn to it. So I think keeping it cool will get some nice phenolics which this strain lacks at higher temps. I ramped it like you intended to do finishing at about 82F. Then lagered it at 50-54F for a while.

If I was to do it again, I'd go maybe 90/10 pils / sugar and mash at 63C for 60 min, then 68C for 25 min then mashout at 74C for 15 min. I'd pitch more yeast, ferment cooler like 16-17C for at least 5 days then heat it up to 25-26C for the remainder of the time. I'd also hop it more.

I did 16 IBU of Willamette at 75 min, 5 IBU of Czech Saaz at 45 min, and another 5 IBU at 30 min for a total of 25 IBU using Tinseth with pellets. Instead, I'd try 25 IBU at 75 min, 5 IBU Saaz at 15 min, and a aroma addition at flameout / whirlpool of something like Opal, Sterling, Saaz, Liberty, etc..

I am convinced but could never prove it that part of the Duvel flavor comes from bottle conditioning not using the fermentation yeast, but from fresh and healthy yeast added at bottling time which are zesty, energetic and full of vigor. So I think it's important to dose with some fresh WLP570 / 1388 at bottling time to condition it appropriately.

---

Oh, you will not get clove from this. It is a fruity thing. Rather than reinvent the wheel, here's a great link talking about it:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/4vg...t-beer-116257/

I also had some correspondence with a professional brewer from Boulevard Brewing who suggested keeping your initial infusion well above 44C / 150F to minimize the amount of clove depending on styles.

If you want to see an interesting thing about serving temps and spicy phenolics, I think that both the Boulevard Tank 7 (saison) and the New Belgium Trippel have outrageous spice when you drink them cold. But if you warm them up a little bit like under a faucet before pouring, almost all that spice disappears and blends into this really nice perfume estery thing. So it's not just fermentation but drinking temps that seems to vary the perception of it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highgravitybacon View Post
You'll be fine. I just brewed that recipe. I think the recipe needs some work.

It's got way too much sugar. I did 85/15 pils/sugar. It attenuated too much. Mashed at 65.5C for an hour. 1.074 OG, 1.006 FG after 2 months. It will tick off 2 or 3 gravity points while you lager it. It takes an eternity for the yeast to clear. At least 6 weeks for me.

It has a perfumely alcohol burn to it. So I think keeping it cool will get some nice phenolics which this strain lacks at higher temps. I ramped it like you intended to do finishing at about 82F. Then lagered it at 50-54F for a while.

If I was to do it again, I'd go maybe 90/10 pils / sugar and mash at 63C for 60 min, then 68C for 25 min then mashout at 74C for 15 min. I'd pitch more yeast, ferment cooler like 16-17C for at least 5 days then heat it up to 25-26C for the remainder of the time. I'd also hop it more.

I did 16 IBU of Willamette at 75 min, 5 IBU of Czech Saaz at 45 min, and another 5 IBU at 30 min for a total of 25 IBU using Tinseth with pellets. Instead, I'd try 25 IBU at 75 min, 5 IBU Saaz at 15 min, and a aroma addition at flameout / whirlpool of something like Opal, Sterling, Saaz, Liberty, etc..

I am convinced but could never prove it that part of the Duvel flavor comes from bottle conditioning not using the fermentation yeast, but from fresh and healthy yeast added at bottling time which are zesty, energetic and full of vigor. So I think it's important to dose with some fresh WLP570 / 1388 at bottling time to condition it appropriately.

---

Oh, you will not get clove from this. It is a fruity thing. Rather than reinvent the wheel, here's a great link talking about it:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/4vg...t-beer-116257/

I also had some correspondence with a professional brewer from Boulevard Brewing who suggested keeping your initial infusion well above 44C / 150F to minimize the amount of clove depending on styles.

If you want to see an interesting thing about serving temps and spicy phenolics, I think that both the Boulevard Tank 7 (saison) and the New Belgium Trippel have outrageous spice when you drink them cold. But if you warm them up a little bit like under a faucet before pouring, almost all that spice disappears and blends into this really nice perfume estery thing. So it's not just fermentation but drinking temps that seems to vary the perception of it.
Thanks for all of your insight. If I finish at 1.006, I'll be pretty pleased. To me, this style needs to be VERY dry.


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