HERMS Coil Bypass and Check Valve - Page 2 - Home Brew Forums

Register Now!
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > HERMS Coil Bypass and Check Valve

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-25-2013, 08:15 PM   #11
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2006
Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 23,205
Liked 1660 Times on 1073 Posts


I guess I'm not following. Mash is recirculationg through the HEX. Rest and ramp to mashout is done and now you want to start sparging right? The new input of this pump should be the drain from the HLT so that it goes through the HEX to flush the wort (and clean the HEX) and the output is already heading to the top of the grainbed anyway. IOW, no reason to bypass the hex.

Now, maybe you plan to batch sparge and the actual first step after the rest is to use the pump to drain the tun completely. Even in that case, you would actually be better off diverting the mash runoff via a 3-way valve right after the pump. I don't know, hard lines suck for these reasons. If you really want to control everything with valves, a Tee with two separate valves is cheaper than a 3 way but the three possible states gets confusing.
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
BIAB Large Mesh False Bottoms and SS HERMS COILS are IN!!
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 08:20 PM   #12
jbaysurfer
Former future HOF Brewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Recipes 
 
Nov 2011
Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 2,937
Liked 590 Times on 429 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
I guess I'm not following. Mash is recirculationg through the HEX. Rest and ramp to mashout is done and now you want to start sparging right? The new input of this pump should be the drain from the HLT so that it goes through the HEX to flush the wort (and clean the HEX) and the output is already heading to the top of the grainbed anyway. IOW, no reason to bypass the hex.

Now, maybe you plan to batch sparge and the actual first step after the rest is to use the pump to drain the tun completely. Even in that case, you would actually be better off diverting the mash runoff via a 3-way valve right after the pump. I don't know, hard lines suck for these reasons. If you really want to control everything with valves, a Tee with two separate valves is cheaper than a 3 way but the three possible states gets confusing.
Maybe you're right, but isn't there a scenario where I'll want to recirc/vorlauf without adding heat? Maybe I haven't contemplated that angle and there's no reason...but I do batch sparge, and I do like to vorlauf/recirc for 10-15 minutes before draining the tun in either step.
__________________
Batch counter: 123 batches (11/29/11-7/22/15).

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 12:30 AM   #13
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2006
Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 23,205
Liked 1660 Times on 1073 Posts


Assuming you regulate the mash temp as a function of the HLT water temp, you're never really adding heat other than that required to hold mash temp. I'm sure someone can come up with a reason to bypass, but I don't know what that would be.
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
BIAB Large Mesh False Bottoms and SS HERMS COILS are IN!!
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2016, 08:11 PM   #14
Felix2Fingerz
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Felix2Fingerz's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2011
Hamburg, NY
Posts: 31
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts


I know...this is a very old thread but I am looking into using the 3-way valve idea myself. In the first image, this is a setup commonly used in the HVAC world excluding the check valve. It is not needed. The pressure differentials will prevent back flow.

From my understanding, in a typical HERMS system you are maintaining mash temp by controlling the temp of the water in the HLT. I often hear that doing step mashes is difficult in most HERMS because it can be very slow.

My thought was to keep the water in the HLT at near boiling temperature and do all the mash temperature control with the 3-way valve along with proportional control. This is exactly how some primary/secondary loops work in the lagers HVAC boiler/hot water system applications. If your mash temp starts to drop, you trickle just enough water through the HERMS coil to maintain temperature. If you need to step the mash up, the control valve should open all the way to the coil then start backing itself down as you approach temperature setpoint.

I'm just thinking out loud. Had this in my head for a while and little by little I am building towards it.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2016, 02:09 PM   #15
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2006
Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 23,205
Liked 1660 Times on 1073 Posts


In my opinion, it's too much heat shock for the wort that does go through the coil.
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
BIAB Large Mesh False Bottoms and SS HERMS COILS are IN!!
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.

orangehero Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2016, 02:12 PM   #16
Felix2Fingerz
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Felix2Fingerz's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2011
Hamburg, NY
Posts: 31
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts


Wouldn't you get the same heat shock or even more from a heating element in a RIMS or a direct fire mash tun or steam jacket?

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2016, 02:37 PM   #17
BadWolfBrewing
Recipes 
 
Jul 2011
South Bend, IN
Posts: 554
Liked 102 Times on 66 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
In my opinion, it's too much heat shock for the wort that does go through the coil.
I think he's right. I have a HERMS system, and a year ago had major problems while brewing a wit. The recirculation was mostly blocked due to the grain bed so I was only recirculating something like a pint a minute.

To make up for it (after having too many beers), I just cranked the HLT temperature.

The beer ended up finishing WAY too high. Like 50% attenuation. After the fact, I decided that I was denaturing the enzymes while they were in the coil. The coil was in hot water (180), and the wort was spending a lot of time in it. By the end of a 60 minute mash, all the wort had circulated through and been heated up too high to convert much of anything.

orangehero Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2016, 02:55 PM   #18
Felix2Fingerz
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Felix2Fingerz's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2011
Hamburg, NY
Posts: 31
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts


I can see the point in that situation.

What size tubing are you using for your HERMS, 3/8" or 1/2"?

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HERMS HEX coil Drake371 DIY Projects 9 12-23-2013 03:06 AM
HERMS coil Garyr2973 Electric Brewing 9 11-06-2012 07:02 PM
My 36 ft Herms coil... petrostar Brew Stands 40 04-11-2012 02:38 AM
Herms HEX Temp Contol: Bypass or Burner? hightechlofi Brew Stands 1 12-25-2011 05:49 PM
HERMS Coil Funkatollah Equipment/Sanitation 3 01-18-2011 02:47 PM


Forum Jump