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Old 01-20-2013, 03:25 PM   #1
BadgerBrigade
 
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I know a wine maker who may make cider for me but he makes wine and that is a still product. I don't know if he has the knowledge to make a carbonated product or the tools.

Do I want to buy a carbonating tank for his facility? Or can i put one in another place without any license, move the still cider over there, then bottle? Or do they have big machines that do a bottle pasteurization by heating that I can buy and put in his facility? Do I want to have it done like champagne and have one of those machines that slowly turns the bottles, freeze the neck and extract the yeast? The last way sounds like the most expensive and takes the longest.
I think if I'm producing the forced carbonation seem like the way the go? Do you agree?
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:41 PM   #2
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Wow. This is a bit beyond the scope of experience for most homebrewers. The simplest method would be priming sugar and bottle carbonation I would think.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:13 PM   #3
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Assuming the wine maker doesn't have the capability to make sparkling wine . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerBrigade View Post
Do I want to buy a carbonating tank for his facility? Or can i put one in another place without any license, move the still cider over there, then bottle?
All production must happen in a bonded winery/cidery. You'll also need a counter pressure bottle filler to bottle once the cider is carbonated.

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Originally Posted by BadgerBrigade View Post
Or do they have big machines that do a bottle pasteurization by heating that I can buy and put in his facility?
Yes, they exist, but it's not really practical at a commercial scale IMO. I know some Brits who do this making small-scale batches but not sure of the size of the operations. Think of how long it takes to pasteurize 5 gallons at home and realize you're doing 200 times that amount.

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Originally Posted by BadgerBrigade View Post
Do I want to have it done like champagne and have one of those machines that slowly turns the bottles, freeze the neck and extract the yeast? The last way sounds like the most expensive and takes the longest.
Depends on whether you're ok with sediment in the bottle. It's definitely the longest and probably the most expensive and labor intensive as well but results in the most high end product.

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Originally Posted by BadgerBrigade View Post
I think if I'm producing the forced carbonation seem like the way the go? Do you agree?
Yes, this is what most commercial cideries do.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarter
Wow. This is a bit beyond the scope of experience for most homebrewers. The simplest method would be priming sugar and bottle carbonation I would think.
But then I have to pasteurize correct? Do they have big pasteurizing machines that heat up the bottles kind of like the stovetop pasteurization method ?
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBreton
You"ll also need a counter pressure bottle filler to bottle once the cider is carbonated.
I don't really want sediment so I think the champagne method is out.....

So basically what I will need is a force carbonating tank and that counter pressure bottle filler?
The winemaker bottles in wine bottles and I have heard that rolling bottling trucks can come in and do 22 ounce bottles for me. I heard they also have the latest and greatest stuff on them so would they have the counter pressure bottle filler?
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerBrigade View Post
The winemaker bottles in wine bottles and I have heard that rolling bottling trucks can come in and do 22 ounce bottles for me. I heard they also have the latest and greatest stuff on them so would they have the counter pressure bottle filler?
Depends on the company. There are two mobile bottling companies that I know of in my area, and neither does carbonated.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:47 PM   #7
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You would need a license or permit (depending on state) because you are producing alcoholic beverages on a commercial scale. I can't really help you with how to carbonate it, but I would suggest contacting a company that makes and sells cider, they would probably offer you some suggestions.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBreton

Depends on the company. There are two mobile bottling companies that I know of in my area, and neither does carbonated.
Ok LeB, I found a mobile bottler who has the counter pressure bottling machine!
So all I need is a carbonation tank, correct?
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerBrigade View Post
Ok LeB, I found a mobile bottler who has the counter pressure bottling machine!
So all I need is a carbonation tank, correct?
If your winemaker friend has the space, hoses, filter, pump and all the other things like a glycol system and is willing to let you use one of his 1000 gallon tanks occasionally to rack and filter into then all you need is the carbonation tank, a carbing stone, and a CO2 tank with hookups. Assuming of course that CA allows wineries to make cider, if not he'll have to get the proper licenses.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBreton

If your winemaker friend has the space, hoses, filter, pump and all the other things like a glycol system and is willing to let you use one of his 1000 gallon tanks occasionally to rack and filter into then all you need is the carbonation tank, a carbing stone, and a CO2 tank with hookups. Assuming of course that CA allows wineries to make cider, if not he'll have to get the proper licenses.
Yes, in California Cider fall under "Specialty wine"...
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