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Old 01-17-2013, 04:14 AM   #1
Thanlin
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Default idea for yeast profiles

Background: I was trying to look up the operational ranges for particular yeast strains from given labs. I have a few homebrew shops in the area so I have plenty of options when it comes to yeast. However there was nothing talking about operational efficiencies at various temperatures and pitching rates. Even on this forum I got an answer of it could and not how it would turn out. I want a more scientific solution and answer to make better beer.

Proposal: to get profiles for each strain of yeast from each major lab and create a speadsheet showing the performance of each yeast strain.

Problem: It would take around a hundred data points for all yeast strains meaning over several thousand batches of beer to test them all. Impossible in just about anyone's lifetime for all strains. I highly doub't that even the labs have been able to do a live test like this.(I sent an e-mail to a lab two nights ago and have yet to hear back)

Solution: have as many homebrewers as possible look back at their brew logs and submit their OG, FG, Pitch temp, Primary High Temp, Primary Low Temp, secondary high/low and any off flavors on a scale from one to ten.

Need: Buy in from you guys to collect enough data points.

How: I would post a yeast and people would look back through their brew sheets to profile each yeast.

Product: I would make the sheet available on this forum.

What do you guys think?


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Old 01-17-2013, 04:39 AM   #2
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So much more goes into flavor/off flavor and final gravity than just yeast...wort composition, wort nutrient levels, wort pH, brewing/mash water chemistry, pitching rates, yeast health, wort O2 levels. All of the above and more affect the final product, so focusing on yeast alone isn't very helpful. I say pitch the yeast in the wort and if you get good beer then don't worry too much about it. The information available on the yeast labs' websites are usually enough to let you know attenuation and a fermentation temperature range.


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Old 01-17-2013, 05:06 AM   #3
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True, while I keep a lot of data on my brews(not the first dozen batches) I do not expect every brewer to do so, but the listed data points are ones that most would have. By getting the extreame data points an different end results you can control statistically for wort composition and other factors keeping in mind most people don't brew a lager with a weizen yeast and the like you would end up with most data points falling in the optimal range but the extremes would lend onsite to the everyday homebrewers available tools.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:20 AM   #4
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On a side note, do the Amish drink? I can only assume there are Amish in Amish county.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanlin View Post
On a side note, do the Amish drink? I can only assume there are Amish in Amish county.
I've bumped into quite a few Amish in my local homebrew shop...
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:34 PM   #6
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Im going to send the Amish Mafia after them
Wheres Levi's number I got it around here somewhere
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanlin View Post
Background: I was trying to look up the operational ranges for particular yeast strains from given labs. I have a few homebrew shops in the area so I have plenty of options when it comes to yeast. However there was nothing talking about operational efficiencies at various temperatures and pitching rates. Even on this forum I got an answer of it could and not how it would turn out. I want a more scientific solution and answer to make better beer.

Proposal: to get profiles for each strain of yeast from each major lab and create a speadsheet showing the performance of each yeast strain.

Problem: It would take around a hundred data points for all yeast strains meaning over several thousand batches of beer to test them all. Impossible in just about anyone's lifetime for all strains. I highly doub't that even the labs have been able to do a live test like this.(I sent an e-mail to a lab two nights ago and have yet to hear back)

Solution: have as many homebrewers as possible look back at their brew logs and submit their OG, FG, Pitch temp, Primary High Temp, Primary Low Temp, secondary high/low and any off flavors on a scale from one to ten.

Need: Buy in from you guys to collect enough data points.

How: I would post a yeast and people would look back through their brew sheets to profile each yeast.

Product: I would make the sheet available on this forum.

What do you guys think?
I think that's a great idea, and an enterprising one. I have a feeling, though, that it will be a tough one to carry out.
There are so many variables that go into how a beer turns out as mentioned above, along with the skills of the respective brewer, that your data would be unreliable.
If you read Chris White's book about yeast you will see that the labs have done that kind of testing with controlled conditions, both in their own labs and in conjunction with commercial brewers to get their data points.
Another option for you would be to use the search function on HBT and insert different yeast strains and find results. There is a thread about S-04, for example, with tons of individuals' information about performance, and one about 3711 too.
Or, have at it and try a test with something common, like Wy1056.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:45 PM   #8
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Yeah, as interesting as it is, you have no control over the other brewers. You'd need to do it all yourself, controlling things as tightly as possible, for it to have any real validity.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:58 PM   #9
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White Labs and Wyeast have collected the flavor-temperature relationships of Begium yeasts and it is in two tables in Brew Like a monk.

It's here: Brew Like a Monk

If any one is interested I have a spread sheet that is a culmination of information from White Labs, Wyeast, Fermentalist, and a few others. However, it's just attenuation and temperature range.

Once I have narrowed down my yeast selection I can search this site and find a wealth of information. I've always been able to mine enough information from threads here, and piece that together with experience and the manufactures information to figure out a fermentation schedule.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:11 PM   #10
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The Belgian yeasts are especially problematic to get data for. Attenuation is way off the mark when used in real world scenarios. Flavors are so different in high gravity vs low gravity, low temp vs high temp.

A few examples.

Wyeast 1388. Published attenuation 74-78%. When used in a typical golden strong with 10-20% simple sugar, attenuation can exceed 90%. Published flocclation "low." In reality, it is the lowest of any yeast I've tried. I'd put it at one notch above "none." Underpitching this yeast leads to horrifying solventy character.

BLAM has a nice chart in it for profile vs temp, but you could make a better chart with a radar diagram. Its much more involved to make however.

I applaud the effort. Its quite an undertaking.


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