Efficiency or should I say Inefficiency... - Page 3 - Home Brew Forums
Register Now For Free!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Efficiency or should I say Inefficiency...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-02-2013, 08:14 PM   #21
Clonefan94
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Clonefan94's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2012
Schaumburg, Illinois
Posts: 1,253
Liked 260 Times on 170 Posts


I think evaluating your crush would be a good simple start. No use going though a long process of trial and error on other things, when just taking a look at the crush could be done in about 10 seconds. So, I think it's the best place to start.

I had the same issue you did. I did some searching on here and determined the likely culprit was my crush, as I had a good number of fully intact grains.

Here is a good resource:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/ind...ting_the_Crush

take a look at that and see how your crush compares. Unless your temps are way off, I have a hard time believing that your efficiency would be that far off.

I'm not saying the other ideas are bad ones, not at all, I just think that without a good crush, none of the ideas anyone has given you here, will matter at all. If the crush is good, then take the other steps.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 08:14 PM   #22
jaylakejr
Recipes 
 
Jan 2012
Paradise, PA
Posts: 78
Liked 6 Times on 4 Posts


Awesome, I will try this and get back to you. Thanks a lot guys~!

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 09:20 PM   #23
ajf
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
ajf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2005
Long Island
Posts: 4,646
Liked 105 Times on 99 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaylakejr View Post
My 4.75 gallons of sparge water is now at 170F and I batch sparge adding the 170 degree water to my mash tun. I give it another quick stir and let it sit about 10 minutes and vorlauf one more time.
I think that is one reason for low efficiency.

Upping the sparge water temp to 185 - 190 could help a little bit, but just giving the sparge water a quick stir is totally inadequate. You need to stir very thoroughly as with batch sparging, it is the stirring that extracts the sugars from the grain. I'll bet that that one change will increase your efficiency substantially.

-a.
__________________
There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 10:00 PM   #24
ilikeguns
 
ilikeguns's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2012
, NY
Posts: 257
Liked 19 Times on 17 Posts


Quick question.. are you using too much water? I quickly plugged in the amount of water into BeerSmith and it says for my setup and it says about 4 gallons strike and 3.8 gallons batch sparge.

That gives me 6.2 preboil volume which for my setup gets me to a 5 gallon batch on a 60 min boil

Disclaimer.. i'm brand new to AG and only have a few batches under my belt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf View Post
I think that is one reason for low efficiency.

Upping the sparge water temp to 185 - 190 could help a little bit, but just giving the sparge water a quick stir is totally inadequate. You need to stir very thoroughly as with batch sparging, it is the stirring that extracts the sugars from the grain. I'll bet that that one change will increase your efficiency substantially.

-a.
I might be making this same mistake although my efficiencies are in the mid-low 70s.
__________________
life is too short to drink beer you don't love...

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 10:01 PM   #25
jaylakejr
Recipes 
 
Jan 2012
Paradise, PA
Posts: 78
Liked 6 Times on 4 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeguns View Post
Quick question.. are you using too much water? I quickly plugged in the amount of water into BeerSmith and it says for my setup and it says about 4 gallons strike and 3.8 gallons batch sparge.

That gives me 6.2 preboil volume which for my setup gets me to a 5 gallon batch on a 60 min boil

Disclaimer.. i'm brand new to AG and only have a few batches under my belt.




I might be making this same mistake although my efficiencies are in the mid-low 70s.

Not really sure, I use a mash calculator.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 10:13 PM   #26
ilikeguns
 
ilikeguns's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2012
, NY
Posts: 257
Liked 19 Times on 17 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaylakejr View Post
Not really sure, I use a mash calculator.
I kinda get the feeling that it's just a matter of too much water. How much wort do you have preboil?
__________________
life is too short to drink beer you don't love...

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 01:55 AM   #27
h22lude
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
h22lude's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Dec 2010
lincoln, ri
Posts: 2,694
Liked 178 Times on 150 Posts


If he is using a mash calculator it most likely isn't the amount of water. The calculator will usually tell you what your gravity will be throughout the process. Beersmith will tell me how much water I need based on my set up and how much grain I am using. It will then tell me what my preboil and original gravity should be based on that info.

I think crush is a big part of it. I have been having the same issue. I do everything to the T but my OG is always lower than it should be. I just bought a mill that should be here tomorrow so we will see how that goes.
__________________
Up Next: Blonde Ale, German Pils
Primary: Pumpkin Spice Latte Stout
Kegged: Galaxy Dry Hopped Fort Point clone, Blonde Ale
Bottled: S'mores Stout, Blonde Ale

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 04:01 AM   #28
ilikeguns
 
ilikeguns's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2012
, NY
Posts: 257
Liked 19 Times on 17 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by h22lude View Post
If he is using a mash calculator it most likely isn't the amount of water. The calculator will usually tell you what your gravity will be throughout the process. Beersmith will tell me how much water I need based on my set up and how much grain I am using. It will then tell me what my preboil and original gravity should be based on that info.

I think crush is a big part of it. I have been having the same issue. I do everything to the T but my OG is always lower than it should be. I just bought a mill that should be here tomorrow so we will see how that goes.
Have you considered that your issue may be too much water?

I'm suspect of his mash calculator because I ran his recipe through BeerSmith and got way different strike and sparge volumes. I'm not saying that crush isn't a contributing factor, but too much water = low OG.
__________________
life is too short to drink beer you don't love...

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 04:58 AM   #29
GotPushrods
 
GotPushrods's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jul 2012
Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 580
Liked 149 Times on 100 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf

I think that is one reason for low efficiency.

Upping the sparge water temp to 185 - 190 could help a little bit, but just giving the sparge water a quick stir is totally inadequate. You need to stir very thoroughly as with batch sparging, it is the stirring that extracts the sugars from the grain. I'll bet that that one change will increase your efficiency substantially.

-a.
"A little bit" indeed. Only a very very small efficiency benefit to mashing-out according to this experiment by Kai:
http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2009...ater-sparging/

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 06:10 AM   #30
WilliamWS
 
WilliamWS's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Apr 2010
New York, NY
Posts: 300
Liked 13 Times on 7 Posts


It sounds like it's a combo of too much water and not-so-great eff.

According to the OP's post he's using 9 gallons total of water and only collecting 6 gallons preboil. I'd expect to collect more like 7.25-7.5 gallons from that. Sounds like he's leaving around 20% of his wort in the tun (though probably <20% of his sugars since the wort after batch sparging wouldn't be as concentrated as first runnings but still, prob more than 10% of his sugars).

That would still give him pretty poor eff, mid 50's-ish.
I'd agree to check your crush and temperature but also check your mash ph and calcium content of your water-those can make a huge difference, too.

Early in my brewing the two things I did that helped my eff the most were changing crush (about 10% eff improvement) and adding calcium to the mash in the form of CaCl and/or CaSO4 (about 7% improvement-our water here is very soft).

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do people report mash efficiency or brewhouse efficiency? thisoneguy All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 66 07-25-2012 05:37 AM
Surprised inefficiency mendozer All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 14 05-06-2012 11:09 PM
Mash Efficiency vs Brewhouse Efficiency exe Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 22 12-22-2011 07:09 PM
Mash efficiency vs Post boil efficiency RootDownBrewing Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 1 08-21-2011 12:33 PM
Increassing efficiency or making up for low efficiency mcarb All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 20 01-12-2011 04:29 PM


Forum Jump