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Old 01-03-2013, 06:15 PM   #11
AmandaK
 
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Reading through this, it seems like you have two culprits: dry hop time and transferring to the secondary.

After reading through IPA, Mitch Steele indicates that maximum dry hopping oil extraction is complete after one day. One day! Sh*t blew my mind.

At any rate, try your next dry hop in the primary and report back. We'd all love to hear a happy ending!
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:14 PM   #12
tagz
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So you think I should go primary dry-hop over no dry-hop? I've read about people adding dry hops just as fermentation is winding down so that they yeast can scrub any oxygen that might be added in the process. Should I try this strategy or just add after fermentation is complete? I know yeast in suspension can reduce the effectiveness of the dry hop but at this point I'm just looking for minimizing oxygen to rule it in or out. Any kind of nice clean hop flavor would be welcome at this point.

Also, if I'm following the Mitch Steele advise, I should rack after 24 hours of contact?

 
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:05 PM   #13
Grantman1
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Honestly I wouldn't worry about dry hops adding enough oxygen to damage your beer in any way, unless you were adding tons and there was all kinds of splashing going on.

 
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:26 PM   #14
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Yeah its just one of the few variables i have left. Since my other beers turn out so clean, it must have something to do with the tranfer to secondary and dry hop. Im open to any other thoughts...

 
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:18 AM   #15
Wesjmc
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I have had this EXACT same issue for a few years now. Every beer I make tastes fantastic EXCEPT my hoppy beers (both extract and AG). Regardless of whether I bottle or keg, my hoppy beers are perfect at early tastings in the primary or around the 1-week mark into carbonation, but after 2-3 weeks the bright, clean, hoppy flavor is gone. The best way I can describe my off flavor is "not clean", or "muddled", but like I said they taste perfect up until the point they're fully carbed. Do you notice the hop aroma disappears around the same time the off flavor comes in? Also, do you notice the color of the beer darkening a bit over the first couple weeks of carbonation?

I've tried a lot of these suggestions, ditching the secondary, dry-hopping at the tail end of fermentation so the yeast scrub out some oxygen, purging my carboy/keg with C02 before transferring, investing in quicker chilling equipment. None of it has worked.

My next attempt I'm switching from one LHBS to another that vacuum-seals all their pellet hops. I'm wondering if throwing in hops that may already be oxidized could be our culprit. I'll definitely let you know what I find out, but that won't be for another 1-2 months. I am as desperate and frustrated as you to find a solution for this weird flavor. I love IPAs and APAs, but these are the only two styles that I simply can't make a decent batch of.

 
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:21 AM   #16
tagz
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Well that's a relief. At least I'm not the only one. I will report back on my latest. It's been one week in primary. I'm going to skip the dry hop. I know it won't be as hoppy, I'm just hoping for a clean hop profile.

I've also suspected old hops, but my last batch was dry hopped with fresh simcoe. My wife thinks I'm crazy that I keep brewing hoppy beers when my other beers turn out so well and I'm always disappointed with the pales.

 
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:34 PM   #17
tagz
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Well I took a sample of the most recent pale/IPA... Fantastic. Bright citrus and floral hops. Now we'll see if that will translate to glass if I skip the secondary/dry-hop. I'm debating skipping the cold crash just to keep oxygen at an absolute minimum for this run. Anyone ever done cold crash with a solid stopper, or is that dangerous?

 
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:46 AM   #18
tagz
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Argh!! Well I kegged it up and it has that same stale flavor! I went back through my notes and the only other thing I can think of is old hops. I realized that one variety of hops I'm using is about 2 years old now. I bought a bunch of centennial and Columbus a while back and each batch has one of the two varieties in it. The last batch was Columbus and a fresher batch of Amarillo. Would it make sense that the Amarillo made the initial samples taste good but the oxidized hops took over? Can anyone tell me what oxidized hops taste like post fermentation? I know some hops smell cheesy when they get old but what do they do to a beer once it has been fermented?

 
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:34 PM   #19
AmandaK
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagz View Post
Argh!! Well I kegged it up and it has that same stale flavor!
Just a thought... could it be your kegging process? Older lines perhaps?
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:50 PM   #20
tagz
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I actually just went through and cleaned all my lines and taps about a week ago. I'm assuming it must have some thing to do with the hops because all my other beers turn out great... Even light, delicate beers. I've ruled out so many factors that it must be my older batches of hops. I've switch to vacuum sealing in ball jars in the past year but those centennials and the Columbus spent some time rolled up in the freezer.

Thanks for the response. I'm willing to hear any new ideas/angles...

 
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