Why the insistencies? WHY? - Page 2 - Home Brew Forums

Register Now!
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > Why the insistencies? WHY?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-19-2012, 02:50 PM   #11
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Dec 2007
"Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,921
Liked 3189 Times on 1884 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stauffbier View Post
Regarding the "stir" debate...

I did a little experiment about a year ago. You can try this too.

Take a cup of water and add your favorite color of food coloring to it. Add a lot of food coloring so that the color is nice and dark. Dump it in a bucket. Rack 5 gallons of clear water from another bucket on top of the colored water with a siphon. This imitates racking beer onto priming sugar. You'll notice that the cup of colored water mixes in with the 5 gallons of clear water very nicely. Give it a try!
Yup. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp.... One of these days I'm actually going to brew an extremely light beer, like a kolsch and tint my priming sugar solution, and get the clearest bucket I can find to use as a bottling bucket, maybe one of those plastic containers from a restaurant supply store, and put 2 or three cameras on the damn thing to have three different angles, and record it mixing, and finally put this damn myth to rest.

It's one thing to be dropping dry sugar into the bucket, and another to be mingling two liquids of nearly the same density.
__________________
Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Stauffbier Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 02:51 PM   #12
Stauffbier
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Stauffbier's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Nov 2011
El Paso, TX
Posts: 5,118
Liked 1048 Times on 641 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hang Glider View Post
Since you're also dealing with dissolved sugars, just food coloring is not going to be a good "control" for your experiment. You would need some dissolved sugars in your bucket "wort" and some dissolved sugars in your "priming sugar" - THEN the food coloring would show a better correlation.
You're right, but I would expect the same results...
As a matter of fact, I'll do that!
__________________
Bier war sein letztes wort dann trugen ihn die Englein fort...


 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 02:52 PM   #13
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Dec 2007
"Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,921
Liked 3189 Times on 1884 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hang Glider View Post
Since you're also dealing with dissolved sugars, just food coloring is not going to be a good "control" for your experiment. You would need some dissolved sugars in your bucket "wort" and some dissolved sugars in your "priming sugar" - THEN the food coloring would show a better correlation.
But, it's not really too different if you think of the fluid densities...is he's mixing water with food colored water, the fluid densities are going to be pretty similar to the mingling of beer and priming sugar solution. It may not be perfect, but it IS a pretty good demonstration.
__________________
Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Stauffbier Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 02:55 PM   #14
homebrewdad
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
homebrewdad's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2012
Birmingham, AL
Posts: 3,275
Liked 384 Times on 279 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
But, it's not really too different if you think of the fluid densities...is he's mixing water with food colored water, the fluid densities are going to be pretty similar to the mingling of beer and priming sugar solution. It may not be perfect, but it IS a pretty good demonstration.
Yep. The issues you get are with, say, mixing extract wort with top off water. Densities there are different enough that it takes some really serious stirring to get it homogenized, and even then, you often need the help of the yeast to get it to stay that way.

Priming sugar solution and beer? Pretty easy to mix.
__________________
Check out the priming sugar calculator, yeast starter calculator, and the beer calorie calculator.

Revvy Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:40 PM   #15
Bronco1500
Recipes 
 
Jul 2012
SanJose, California
Posts: 64
Liked 6 Times on 4 Posts


I would agree that its not a technique issue. Its an issue of patience. Im a noob myself but all of my HB has improved with patience. Sometimes its hard to wait when even "green HB" taste soooo much better than 3/4 of the commercial brews out there.
__________________
May the best of last year, be the worst of the next year !

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:59 PM   #16
kblankenship11
 
kblankenship11's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jun 2012
Posts: 249
Liked 21 Times on 17 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Screech49 View Post
I had this same problem until I started stirring my beer. Once the beer is in the bottling bucket with the sugar in it, stir very slowly, making sure not to aerate it. This made my batches more consistent. Just be sure not to stir it too hard. Hope this helps you with your next batch.
Bingo

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:19 PM   #17
the_trout
 
the_trout's Avatar
Recipes 
 
May 2011
Rochester, NY
Posts: 438
Liked 95 Times on 60 Posts


I think part of the problem that new brewers face are the recipes themselves. Many of them will give you the minimum time frames for each step in the process. Such as "allow to ferment for 3 days" or "store at room tempature for 3 days". Many of them make it sound as if your beer will be done in 3 weeks from start to finish. While it may technically be done its not ready to drink, usually not even close, and when the new brewer drinks 3 week old beer and spits it out because it tastes raw they get discouraged. I think we would do better to have more "truth in advertising" applied to the recipes. I know they want you to come back into the store and buy more stuff asap but I think they would have better customer retention in the long run if they were a little more honest with the timelines.
__________________
Fish Monger Ale House
On Tap
The Fallen - Maibock
Unearthly IIPA
Bottles
RIS
American Black Ale
CT-A3 - Centennial Amber
Upcoming
Imperial Amber
English Bitter

the_trout on untappd

2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:42 PM   #18
unionrdr
Heavyweight homebrewing author & shootist of air
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
unionrdr's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Feb 2011
Sheffield, Ohio
Posts: 38,965
Liked 3690 Times on 3170 Posts


Right on trout. They think folks will be scared off if they read how long it really takes to make a good home brew. So they exagerate on the short side to make it sound good. It basicallt takes me about 2 months frpm BK to glass whether it's AE or PM (All Extract or Partial Mash).
And just racking alone doesn't seem to mix evenly for me. And I've got an ale pail with the large barrel tap on it (5/8" spout on it),& the Cooper's micro brew FV with the more standard 3/8" spout on the spigot. The barrel tap flows so hard,at the begining it has to be closed off a bit to keep from foaming things up. The more standard 3/8" ones can be done wide open from the start,since they don't flow as fast. But none seem to mix evenly 100% of the time.
Then there's the grainy/crusty deposits I'm finding around the lip of the bottles. Pretty tough stuff too. Gotta soak that off & see if this batch carbs better. I think the crud causes a high pressure leak & carbonation goes out the window. & I used 5oz in 5G this last time.
Anyway,It's the unrealistic time frames & little things that they'll likely only learn of on here.
__________________
NEW books on amazon/Kindle! Check it out now...
Home Brewing- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PBAP6JO
Distopian Sci-Fi- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NTA0L6G
New! John Henry- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GBV3UXU

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 06:14 PM   #19
pwkblue
 
pwkblue's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2012
Sandy, Utah
Posts: 183
Liked 18 Times on 13 Posts


I knew from the thread title Revvy would have a strong post about his favorite issue. It is good advice, and could very well could be the issue.....but it isn't the only possibility!!

The OP stated "in the middle" not "the last 3 bottles were great". Waiting long enough for bottle conditioning is 1 step....but if there is still inconsistency I would look at a few other basics:

1)light exposure...bottle should be stored dark.

2)bottle cleaning: I thought I was doing a good job cleaning/sanitizing my bottles....but once I started using oxyclean soaks to remove labels...I noticed a consistency gain..the occasional "off" bottle is gone.

3) equipment cleaning/sanitation...I use starsan, and don't find any off flavors from its use....but some of the other cleaners and sanitizers can effect flavor if not used properly.

4)basic bottling process, Revvy has a great process detailed in a stickly in the bottling forum.

In short step back, and make sure you have the basics right. If you have clean sanitary equipment, and good bottling process....the result should be fairly consistent.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 09:53 PM   #20
ding_brew
Recipes 
 
Dec 2012
Posts: 14


What I'm referring to is beer somewhere in the muddle. Not at the end. When this happens some of the beer at the end is not as good as in the middle. From what I have read leads me to believe that it is more about inconsistent sugar and possible cleanliness problems. I think I will stir my priming sugar which I don't. I usually dump the liquid half way into my bottling bucket transfer. I will also switch from onestep to starsan and see if I get more consistent batches. I will report as soon as I set things up. I am also using ez-cap bottles and although they are not that old I will replace all of the gadgets to see if that makes a difference. Thanks for all the great ideas.

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools



Forum Jump