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Old 12-13-2012, 04:38 PM   #1
jrhammonds
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Default Bread Flavor in Paulaner Helles and Bitburger?

I'll make this as simple as I can.

I've been brewing all-grain for 10 years, lagers for 2. I've recently become obsessed with trying to replicate the explicit BREAD flavor that you find in a Paulaner Helles or a Bitburger. I'm not talking about the generic bread/malt flavor that many people talk about in Munich/Vienna/Maris etc... I'm referring to that "I just took a bite of the crust of a french baguette" bread flavor. (Paulaner Helles and Bitburger have it; Spaten, Czech Pils, and other continental Pils's do not--just to clarify).

Currently, I'm on my 5th batch of German Helles. I only change a small variable each batch so I can isolate this issue.
As it stands my recipe has been a tweaked verson of this:

91% German Pils (Best Malz)
6% Munich 9L (Weyerman) (but I've also done Light Munich 6L)
1% Melanoidin (Wyerman)

So far.. fantastic beers! But no french crusty baguette flavor. I know some use Durst Malt, some Weyerman. I've done triple decoctions before with my Czech Pils recipe, but not this guy; but I can't help but wonder WHAT MALT has this distinct flavor. Is it a brand? Another malt? Decoction?

If you know exactly what I'm talking about, help a brother out! Thanks!


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Old 12-14-2012, 01:40 AM   #2
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Subscribed! I am also curious about getting that flavor just right.


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Old 12-15-2012, 01:14 AM   #3
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No one?
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:45 AM   #4
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I think it may require more melanoidin or doing a decoction to get more melanoidins. Bitburger and the like have a super simple grist so it is probably more dependent on process.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:51 PM   #5
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Thanks for the suggestion! I know how light and simple Bitburger is, but yet sooo bready.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:19 AM   #6
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I want to know too, and know that character that you're referring to. I really like it.
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:53 PM   #7
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1% melanoidin is not very much. I've used anywhere between 3-5ish. Admittedly they weren't for that style of beer though.
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:30 PM   #8
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Per definition, a Helles is made from either Munich malt ("Münchner Helles") or Vienna malt ("Wiener Helles"). Could it be that you're using too much pilsner in your grist?
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:07 PM   #9
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The BJCP style guide for '1D. Munich Helles' says all Pilsner malt. It's the '5A. Maibock/Helles Bock' that calls for Munich & Vienna malts.
Code:
 1D. Munich Helles

Aroma: Pleasantly grainy-sweet, clean Pils malt aroma dominates.
 Low to moderately-low spicy noble hop aroma, and a low background note
 of DMS (from Pils malt). No esters or diacetyl.

Appearance: Medium yellow to pale gold, clear, with a creamy white head.

Flavor: Slightly sweet, malty profile. Grain and Pils malt flavors dominate,
 with a low to medium-low hop bitterness that supports the malty palate.
 Low to moderately-low spicy noble hop flavor. Finish and aftertaste remain
 malty. Clean, no fruity esters, no diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium body, medium carbonation, smooth maltiness with no
 trace of astringency.

Overall Impression: Malty but fully attenuated Pils malt showcase.

Comments: Unlike Pilsner but like its cousin, Munich Dunkel, Helles is a
 malt-accentuated beer that is not overly sweet, but rather focuses on malt
 flavor with underlying hop bitterness in a supporting role.

History: Created in Munich in 1895 at the Spaten brewery by Gabriel
 Sedlmayr to compete with Pilsner-style beers.

Ingredients: Moderate carbonate water, Pilsner malt, German noble
 hop varieties.

Vital Statistics: 	OG: 1.045 – 1.051
IBUs: 16 – 22 	FG: 1.008 – 1.012
SRM: 3 – 5 	ABV: 4.7 – 5.4%

Commercial Examples: Weihenstephaner Original, Hacker-Pschorr Münchner
 Gold, Bürgerbräu Wolznacher Hell Naturtrüb, Mahr's Hell, Paulaner Premium
 Lager, Spaten Premium Lager, Stoudt's Gold Lager
I would believe a decoction mash, low hopping rates, the higher carbonate water would help differentiate it from a Czech or German Pils. If that's not enough perhaps the use of a malt-accentuating lager yeast would help.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:57 PM   #10
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Bjcp shows a bitburger as a German Pilsner 2A


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