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Old 12-12-2012, 08:07 PM   #31
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Kai is one of the smartest homebrewers in the world actually, forget this just this thread.


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Old 12-12-2012, 08:15 PM   #32
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One last thing... this is a message board about beer. This is a thread in the science forum requesting scientific studies to read over. How can you have a message board and attempt to not allow questions? Isn't that a contradiction?

For those who are flaming me, the fact of the matter is that YOU are trolling me.

The science guys provided great information. They knew exactly what I meant when I said that I wasn't looking for opinions like on every other thread.

It is obvious that only the beer brewing snobs are offended. Which I find a problem with you, the snob. Now stop trolling me.



 
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryno1ryno View Post
One last thing... this is a message board about beer. This is a thread in the science forum requesting scientific studies to read over. How can you have a message board and attempt to not allow questions? Isn't that a contradiction?

For those who are flaming me, the fact of the matter is that YOU are trolling me.

The science guys provided great information. They knew exactly what I meant when I said that I wasn't looking for opinions like on every other thread.

It is obvious that only the beer brewing snobs are offended. Which I find a problem with you, the snob. Now stop trolling me.
I don't think the flames/anger was directed at your question. It seemed to be directed at the attitude that seemed evident in your post. You seemed to be showing a lack of respect for your fellow homebrewer (primarily with the "no opinions" comment...which I think could be taken as you saying that any non-study was just the persons opinion).

EDIT: Also, the way your worded the title of the thread could lead people to think you doubt the fact that temperature/steps affect the final product.

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Old 12-12-2012, 08:51 PM   #34
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Rather than state that you don't want any opinions on the thread, it might help to state that you're primarily looking for studies, charts, results, etc. that support or refute conversion at certain temperatures or that one method is better than another. It's just a more positive way to state the request, rather than the negative of "no opinions!" (semantics, I know...) There will always be some opinion thrown in here or there, but data to back it up is certainly useful. I can see your point, and obviously you're looking for a more scientific approach, rather than just what someone tells you happens. But let's not let this turn into a flamewar.

As was mentioned previously, do some searching around for information around step-mashing versus single-infusion-mashing. This should yield some good results for you. I did a little search and actually ran across a guy that tried to do a reverse step-mash. Now, that wouldn't make sense to most of us, but he wanted to know what would happen. Good on him! You never know until you try, right? (He also did some work on testing yeast pitch rates.)

 
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:01 PM   #35
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I agree 100% that we all benefit from questioning whether "common practices" are really "best practices." We all know that there is plenty of Homebrewing Lore that has passed from one brewer to another by the force of tradition alone. It's not uncommon for these to be found unncessary, or occasionally counterproductive.

However, I don't think this thread has the right tone for this questioning. Ideally, start by doing a little homework and reading the basic texts out there. If you can't get your hands on those, I'd suggest asking in a more constructive way, not implying that you're going to get junk opinion answers.

"Hey guys, I'm curious about the scientific basis for the effect of different mash temperatures on enzyme activity. Can someone point me to a useful article or book about this?" would have come off better.

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Old 12-12-2012, 09:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryno1ryno View Post
One last thing... this is a message board about beer. This is a thread in the science forum requesting scientific studies to read over. How can you have a message board and attempt to not allow questions? Isn't that a contradiction?

For those who are flaming me, the fact of the matter is that YOU are trolling me.

The science guys provided great information. They knew exactly what I meant when I said that I wasn't looking for opinions like on every other thread.

It is obvious that only the beer brewing snobs are offended. Which I find a problem with you, the snob. Now stop trolling me.
OK man sounds good. Hope you find what you're looking for.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryno1ryno View Post
You that are offended need to take the approach from this gentlemen quoted. He has proven to be the smartest guy on this thread. And I respect him more than the rest who ONLY have opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryno1ryno View Post
One last thing... this is a message board about beer. This is a thread in the science forum requesting scientific studies to read over. How can you have a message board and attempt to not allow questions? Isn't that a contradiction?

For those who are flaming me, the fact of the matter is that YOU are trolling me.

The science guys provided great information. They knew exactly what I meant when I said that I wasn't looking for opinions like on every other thread.

It is obvious that only the beer brewing snobs are offended. Which I find a problem with you, the snob. Now stop trolling me.
Well. I just saw these posts. I guess my point was missed- that in the 'brew science' forum, we talk about brewing science and it's a great place for discussion. But we normally go deeper than the super basic science principles. We have a Beginner's Forum for simple and basic questions.

In any case, I'm glad you found what you were looking for. I will refrain from offering further advice to you, as my "opinions" are not worthy.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryno1ryno View Post
First part yes. Second part... huh? I have no idea what isothermal mash is

Essentially... how important is steeping at lower temps and then changing temps. If there is a quick and dirty answer then I'm happy. I do like the material and I believe I get it now... but it never hurts to be lazy and have someone else tell me what they think.
temperature has little impact on steeping - steeping is done to extract color and sugars

mashing is done to convert starches to sugars via enzymatic activity which rely on specific temperature ranges

you don't need to worry much about your steeping temp when you are just doing extract

although, you stated you don't want opinions but then say you want to be lazy and just hear what others have to think...

people are happy to help here, happy to share our experiences and some posters have done significant scientific research but no one is here to hold your hand because you are too lazy to do some basic reading on your own

 
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:36 PM   #39
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The way to ask technical questions is to precede with a short explanation of the basis for the question and a quick summary of your current understanding. For example, you might say something like,

"I've read XYZ books and noticed a trend in HBT post that suggest X, but no matter how many different rest temperatures I try, I get the same attenuation. This has me questioning the relevance of temperature in fermentability of wort. Can anyone provide me with some more in-depth studies or help me figure this out in some other way?"

I'm not telling you what to do but merely suggesting that you can word things in a less accusatory manner and establish the context of the question. Sometimes novices think they know what they don't know, but often times they know just enough to get in trouble. You have to be able to digest "how to brew" before you can actually handle the peer reviewed papers.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:33 AM   #40
ryno1ryno
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There is a got damn smilely face immediately after the no opinions comment.

Get a grip people.



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