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Old 12-03-2012, 02:26 AM   #11
Yooper
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Originally Posted by Calder View Post

Not sure I completely agree with you. IPAs, Indian Pale Ales, were supposedly highly hopped and high gravity to help them survive the months long journey from England to India. The original IPAs were made with long term storage in mind, and an aged IPA probably more represents the traditional style. But ..... current design of IPAs is to be highly hopped and drunk young. Maybe young IPAs (as wonderful as they are) should not be called an IPA.
It's INDIA pale ale, not "Indian". That's a small thing that drives me crazy. And actually aged IPAs aren't the norm- the stuff that was shipped to India was just as often porter as pale ale, and usually contaminated or otherwise infected with brettanomyces so it's not really a valid comparison.

Currently, the BJCP descriptions describe an American IPA and that is what I am drawing on.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:47 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Calder View Post
I think poor brewing practices lead to cider tasting beer, not the amount of simple sugars. Yes, 30% is a lot, and I've never made a beer with more than that, but I've been close with a couple of Belgians. Have you any experience that a lot of simple sugars gives you a cidery beer. Just wondering if you have experience, or are perpetuating an old wives tale.
I quite often brew using up to about 25% of my grain bill as light or dark brown sugar so I am in no way opposed to having a substantial part of my grain bill be sugar.

During the first few months of beginning brewing I used quite a few Mr. Beer kits. In my beginners haste/quest for higher ABV, than was provided for in the actual recipe, I went a bit overboard with booster and sugar in a whispering wheat weizenbier. Even the last bottle, that was aged a good 4 months after bottling, tasted a bit "green apples" to me. It could have been something else that wasn't up to par in my process but I suppose the info that I'd read about using too much sugar might have stayed at the forefront of my memory and influenced my conclusion.

Maybe I should try brewing up a batch with about 35 to 40% of the grain bill being simple, white, granulated sugar and see if the results are similar to that Weizenbier.

I suppose that in this statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogri View Post
. It's advisable to not go more than 30% of your total grain bill in simple sugars, though, as this can lead to a cider-ish tasting beer.
I should have probably written "may possibly" instead of "can", or even included "supposedly" before or after "can"

 
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:03 AM   #13
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this is all terrific stuff, great food for my brain, thanks, guys! continue...

 
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
I think poor brewing practices lead to cider tasting beer, not the amount of simple sugars. Yes, 30% is a lot, and I've never made a beer with more than that, but I've been close with a couple of Belgians. Have you any experience that a lot of simple sugars gives you a cidery beer. Just wondering if you have experience, or are perpetuating an old wives tale.



Not sure I completely agree with you. IPAs, Indian Pale Ales, were supposedly highly hopped and high gravity to help them survive the months long journey from England to India. The original IPAs were made with long term storage in mind, and an aged IPA probably more represents the traditional style. But ..... current design of IPAs is to be highly hopped and drunk young. Maybe young IPAs (as wonderful as they are) should not be called an IPA.
The story may be true that the hops were intended to preserve the beer for a long voyage....BUT drinking an IPA today is very different than what arrived in India long ago. Now it is about enjoying the flavor, aroma, and bitterness of hops. Since Hop aromas and flavors quickly dissipate IPA's should be enjoyed before all that effort and balance disapears.

Now...why do IPAs and IIPA seem to be getting stronger and stronger? The balance...also means the stronger the beer...the more hops the brewer can use...."Hoppyness" sells well right now...so IPAs are getting stronger so they can be more "hoppy"

 
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
The short answer is that good beers are all about balance.

A higher amount of hopping requires more malt for balance- so that's why IPAs tend to be higher ABV. Conversely, a high ABV but lower hopped beer might have plenty of alcohol and malt flavor, but be too sweet or "hot" due to it being unbalanced.
Yooper...i don't recognize your posts without the former illustration! I read this and thought "great answer, who wrote this"....ahh ...no wonder.

 
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