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Old 11-29-2012, 03:30 AM   #11
somedudefromguam
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Feb 2012
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The first time I used a 3 gal pot to mash in, covered tightly around the top with cling wrap and also flooded with co2 after I sealed, and after stirring/tasting (not during the mash, but after you pitch extra grains around 110-120 degrees). This is the brew I raved about in the original post.....

I recently brewed a a larger batch and had to use a 7 gallon pot to mash in. The cling wrap was not big enough to go over the pot and keep a tight seal. I loosely covered the sour mash, but also tried to "blanket" it with co2 when I disturbed it, I do not think this helped because it was very loosely covered and the room it was located is kinda drafty.... I also put cling wrap directly on the mash grains, and pushed any bubbles out from under it to eliminate any oxygenation. The smell that I experienced during the sour mash and boil was different than the first Berliner Weisse, but it all tasted the same. This brew is in the fermenter and I will likely review it again after it is ready to drink.

The difference between the two brews: the first brew was covered very well, I could not smell the sour mash when I walked into the room. The second was covered poorly and I could smell the sour mash as soon as I entered the room, which seems to indicate that the mash was exposed to circulating air/ oxygenated. This is probably why the two sour mashes smelled differently. I transferred to my mash tun, not worrying about aeration at this point... Added boiling water to the mash to reach 160 degrees and sparged ...

As for the sour mash temperature (after sacc. rest) I tried to maintain 120 degrees (F), but only succeeded in holding about 100 degrees for most of the time (overnight each time dipping to 80 degrees, whoops). Soured for approximately 40 hours each time--you just have to taste it and stop the sour when you are comfortable, but remember that the sourness will be balanced by the sweetness of the unfermented wort, when it ferments out, you will perceive more pronounced sourness.

I feel Berliner Weisse is not widely drunk and is fairly underrated, I sort of reached a brewing plateau until I discovered this remarkable beer! Brew on!
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Originally Posted by coffeegod View Post
I fermented a brown ale at 80 degrees for two weeks. At the end my beer tasted like a belgium tripple not a brown but it was a damn good belgium tripple.

 
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:28 AM   #12
JoeLindley
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Jun 2012
St. Louis, MO
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Thanks. Great info. I'm going to give it a try when it warms up again.

 
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:10 PM   #13
bb239605
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May 2008
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I have a couple clarifying questions for ya as far as your process goes.

I take it you did a 100% sour mash? So did you mash as normal then just let it cool down to 100F for the lacto ferment, then move back to mash tun and sparge?

I am attempting my first Berliner this weekend and the cool thing about sours is there is so many ways to go at it. I have narrowed it down to three ways I would like to try.

First, I was thinking 100% sour mash. I would mash as normal, sparge as normal, then spike the wort with Lacto. After it is sufficiently sour, bring to a boil to kill off lacto, hit with some hops, then cool and ferment as normal.

Or, i was thinking mash as normal, raise temp of whole mash to 170F to denature enzymes, cool to 100F and then throw in fresh grains and let it sour via "wild" lactic fermentation. Once lacto ferment is complete, bring to a boil, add hops, chill and ferment.

Third, I have read about no boil berliner weisse beers. This method involves hops in the mash. So mash as normal, throw in the hops that are being used for the recipe, let mash sour, then sparge out at 170F follwed by a fermentation as normal. I dont like this method as much as it gives the chance of some of the LAB to survive into primary fermentation and beyond with the potential for bottle bombs in the future.

I am leaning more towards method one. That way I have the most conrol over the process. I can do the lacto ferment in one of my primary fermentors with a brew belt for temp control, keep O2 minimized, and then effectively eliminate all lacto in the following primary fermentation.

Thoughts?

 
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:29 PM   #14
somedudefromguam
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Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb239605 View Post

I take it you did a 100% sour mash? So did you mash as normal then just let it cool down to 100F for the lacto ferment, then move back to mash tun and sparge?
Exactly what I did. Just remember to pitch .5 - 1 pound of uncrushed grains after it has cooled.

Method 1 sounds good to me. I don't know if there would be a different outcome from souring after the sparge versus before sparge. Does not seem like there would be.
Method 2 is pretty much how I did it, except, I don't think there is any reason to heat the mash to 170 to denature. I would definitely do that after the mash has soured, before I sparge.
Method 3 seems like a bad idea, I guess. I liked the idea of lacto being contained in the mash tun(where it usually is anyway) and there is no chance of it getting in my fermenters, racking canes, kegs, bottles, etc..

I hope this helps. This brew seems complicated, but, after the first time I brewed it, I realized how simple it really is. I try not to over complicate things when it comes to brewing. Keep it simple, do what makes sense. Have fun!
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Originally Posted by coffeegod View Post
I fermented a brown ale at 80 degrees for two weeks. At the end my beer tasted like a belgium tripple not a brown but it was a damn good belgium tripple.

 
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:38 PM   #15
bb239605
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May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somedudefromguam View Post
I hope this helps. This brew seems complicated, but, after the first time I brewed it, I realized how simple it really is. I try not to over complicate things when it comes to brewing. Keep it simple, do what makes sense. Have fun!

This is some sound advice. Over the years, I have realized that prior to a new brewing technique I overthink and overanalyze the technique often times adding undue worry to the brew day when in reality it is much easier than it seems. Lagers and decoction mashing is a prime example.

Thanks for the help!

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Old 11-30-2012, 07:55 PM   #16
bknifefight
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The reason why I want to try this recipe is the fact that the infection is contained in the tun, that way I won't have to worry about causing issues with other beer!

 
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:54 AM   #17
crazyirishman34
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I do a short boil and pitch lacto into the wort. Keep it at 90 deg for 2 days then pitch US-05. I have done a no boil batch that being the more traditional meathod and if you are going to drink it right away. the no boil gives you the most complexity. Also i fine it aggressively with gelatin to get it brilliantly clear. Last touch is to carbonate it to 4 volumes

 
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:29 PM   #18
monkeybox
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Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyirishman34 View Post
I have done a no boil batch that being the more traditional meathod and if you are going to drink it right away.
What's your rationale behind the bolded section? I have a no boil I'm getting ready to bottle.

 
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:47 AM   #19
highgravitybacon
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Sep 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReverseApacheMaster View Post
I appreciate that your review was more elaborate than the usual beeradvocate/ratebeer review of, "it pours a copper color like a toddler's diarrhea after too much pedialyte..."
And the requisite beeradvocate flowerly, description of whatever douchebag glass it went into and the complete lineage of the damn bottle from store to car to fridge to glass.

"Poured from a 48.9F bottle, taken from the second shelf of my gunnmetal gray samsung side by side fridge, the bottle dripping with sweaty condensation like a canadian on a white sand beach, into my personally signed and etched Schlitz 1972 pilsener glass given to me by a college roommate of John Palmer's podiatrist. It pours a copper color like a toddler's diarrhea after too much pedialite and a heaping scoop of wet rotavirus. "

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Old 12-08-2012, 06:51 AM   #20
highgravitybacon
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Sep 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bknifefight View Post
Interesting. Without having to worry about infected equipment, this sounds like a fun experiment. I am not very familiar with the style but would be willing to try it out.
You already have infected equipment. It's slathered with a thick coating of bacteria, funguses, viruses and all sorts of random sh!t. Then you add water and grain to it, which is covered in a greater magnitude of ****, let it sit for an hour or two giving the random **** time to become even more random **** before boiling it.

So it's no worry. Just boil it.

 
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