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Old 11-21-2012, 05:14 AM   #11
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That UI was the old Java one from 4 years ago, the current one is a bit better and .Net. I have moved on from the Opto hardware and am currently working with I2C networked chips to get the same functionality down to 2 - 3" X 4" boards. I have a USB connected I2C setup with 8 AI board, and 16 DI/DO board to play with and sort out the I2C code and IO timing.


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Old 11-21-2012, 12:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewman ! View Post
I bought raw DS18S20s from Digikey. ~$5 each.
Those devices can be had much more cheaply on ebay. I bought 50 for under a buck a piece.


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Old 11-21-2012, 09:55 PM   #13
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I heard bought from here before.

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/cata...ult/?q=Ds18b20
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmayhugh View Post
Those devices can be had much more cheaply on ebay. I bought 50 for under a buck a piece.
I saw some of those sources too. I didn't trust that they weren't 3rd party knock offs or manufacturing line rejects. I'll start with genuine parts from a trusted supplier and consider alternatives once I got them working.

Also, I got the DS18S20s rather than the DS18B20s.

The B series allows one to set the resolution of the response to be finer than the 9 bits (0.5C, 0.7F) that the S series is fixed at. The accuracy on these devices is +/- 0.5C from the factory, so the only way that I could see needing higher resolution is if one applied a correction curve to the output.

At this point I didn't think it was worth it. I'll be happy to get the factory accuracy and resolution working. I'll reconsider things once I do that.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:59 AM   #15
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Good work collecting info, Yorg.

Do people like the BCS462 UI or could it be improved ? It seems complicated.

The hard part about this part of the project will be designing a UI that is simple and works for what everyone wants to do.

One really neat feature I thought of today is power sharing.

Lets say that people are running a multi vessel electric brewstand and running multiple heaters at the same time. HLT, Mashtun, maybe a boil. Lets say that they don't have enough power to have all three heaters on at the same time. But lets say that none of the processes need full power to maintain temperature, as is often the case. In such a situation, if the controller was smart enough, it could give the boil kettle 50% of the power, the mash tun 20% and the HLT 10%, by simple smart duty cycle sharing, ie not having them all on at once.

However, one would have to give the controller some rules to guide its behavior in those circumstances and they probably change as the brew session advances and then the logic and UI to implement it gets complicated, quickly, at least at first glance.

My approach in these situations is to get something, anything, running ASAP and in the hands of the user and then take what is learned from using it and move the functionality forward. I am not in favor of the "Big Bang" approach where we would try to create the ultimate controller all at once. Get the kernel working, and then add/refine/tune ad nauseum.

Who following this thread intends to get an RPi and relays and sensors and work along with me as we do this ? There is about a month of lead time getting an RPi.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:07 AM   #16
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The other question that needs to be asked is if I should start with bit banging the one wire bus or if I should use the USB one wire adapter. What do people think they are going to use ?
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewman !
Who following this thread intends to get an RPi and relays and sensors and work along with me as we do this ? There is about a month of lead time getting an RPi.
I already have 2 RPi's (knew it was going to be hard to get them so...) and I will be following along. Still need sensors/relays but that is quick and I'll be getting the same items you listed earlier.
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:59 AM   #18
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I agree about getting something up and going and not going for the ultimate controller. But I'd like to say:
Having worked in a para-it role, interfacing between business and IT to develop solutions, I have learned the hard way to have a vision and functional architecture to work to. Without it, a project starts wandering about, gathering functionality, and making additions to functionality difficult because it invariably leads to:

"Gee, if we knew that, then we would have taken a different approach, and it would have been easy to add what you want, but with the current architecture it would mean a big re-program".
On this note I've attached a couple of interface drawings as suggestions - with due credit to the bcs guy for similarities in approach.

How about:
If we comment on these, and arrive at something agreed, mindful to keep it do-able and not going for the big bang, then it would give good direction for you technical types with respect to development approach.
?

So to also respond to your question about the bcs interface - as i've said before, it is clunky, and hopefully the drawings move toward a simpler approach.

Regarding the bit banging question - I think you should collect the complete hardware set and develop from there - especially if we have established that without it the R PI can be 'wonky'.

Re the power sharing - another benefit of the 'step' / state machine approach is that it is probably easier to program, as each state is discrete and allows a % to be allocated per Output for that step.

Kladue - your knowledge and results on a number of things I've seen on this forum are awesome. I'm not sure you have the time to do your own thing as well as contribute here, but with the talent circling this thread, including brewman, adding you would make a great team.

Let me know what you think of the 'step' / state machine approach and the interface itself as suggested in the attached drawings.

Cheers.

edit: clearly not a complete set of 'pages', but not many more would do it.
edit2: Damn, these have been shrunk by the forum upload to be illegible - anyone know how to make them loadable in native resolution?
edit 3: Should I do a video and youtube it, demonstrating the bcs approach live, so you know what I'm talking about better?
Click image for larger version

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Old 11-22-2012, 05:14 AM   #19
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That is way more complicated than I had in mind. But the beauty of it is that people can build whatever they want. Don't let me stop you.

I guess it comes down to do we want to automate the process or automate the control ?

For me, I think I'd be happy being able to set the boil kettle target temp to 210F manually when I want and then having the machine take over and possibly do a temperature log. I don't think I want a bunch of pre programmed steps running my brew session. Maybe that is just me.

I'd like to know what the UI for the Brewmagic system looks like. Anyone know it in detail ?

I'll start with building the drivers for the devices so they can be run from the command line. We'll see where we go from there.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:32 AM   #20
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I am working on I2C hardware at this time, off the shelf IO boards are available, code is not difficult, scan time is 50 ms an analog input, 50 ms to set 16 digital IO, and a USB to I2C interface makes it capable of working with different platforms. When I can get the advanced IO board built and running I should have most of the functions of the Opto 22 hardware on 2 - 3" X 4" boards.
As to a user interface, make it simple, batch info ( malt, water ratio, batch size), mash temps, and schedule, then let the software do the calculating and set point generation. The less that a new user has to do the better the chance of success if they do not have to guess at settings, just enter the recipe volumes and get the answers automatically.
You will need a setup screen for establishing system thermal mass factor, vessel volumes, and temperature/flow sensor tuning, which should be made as simple as possible for the non tech folks.
My 2 cents, the R-PI is a neat board, but you will find that by the time you have invested considerable time, cash, and effort it still takes more hardware than necessary to make it function. While the 1 wire hardware is cheap, it also is extremely limited in function, and scan time is not what I would consider fast.
It seems like it would be time better spent to look at the mini 2440 boards with a touch screen that would form the basis of a standalone controller using I2C IO hardware. That is the direction I am headed as I have the software from previous efforts, just need to finish IO hardware.


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