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Old 11-14-2012, 02:03 AM   #1
loftybrewer
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I searched this forum but I didn't find anything on the mash method that Boston Beer Company used for Infinium? Have not had the beer, but I read an interview (was drunk, can't relocate the link - help?) where Jim Koch claimed that he had patented a method of mashing in the 70F degree range for over a week instead of the traditional 90 minute+ method in the 145F-170F range? The phrase was something to the effect that for inspiration they looked to how seeds naturally undergo starch conversion at soil temperatures over a period of weeks. First of all, how can you patent that sh*t? I think that's fu**ed up. Secondly - I want to do that! The payoff is crazy ultra fermentability for high gravity beers, and I am planning on a super-high gravity lager over Thanksgiving break. Can any mad brew scientists help me accomplish this? If you throw crushed grain into water at 70F, doesn't that essentially become a lacto starter? How do we prevent these and other microbes from interfering? PLEASE, I really want to figure this out. Any thoughts are welcomed

 
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:15 PM   #2
bdh
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Kai has a article about this on his site:
http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2012...-for-infinium/

Finding the 'green malt' to make the enzyme rich extract might be tricky. You could maybe try to make a pseudo-enzyme extract by mashing some 6-row at very low temperatures (say 135F), but I'd speculate this won't give you the same results or else Boston Beer Co would have just done that instead of messing with green malt.

edit: Reading the rest of Kai's article, it looks like the Anheuser Busch patent might be something similar to what I described using the 6-row. If nothing else, it'd be interesting to try adding a very low temperature mash to the fermenter after fermentation had started. You may get more enzymes with green malt, but there might be enough there in a low temp 6-row mash to do what you want (especially if you do a long-ish primary fermentation).

 
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:25 PM   #3
Obliviousbrew
 
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Thatīs a nice article I think the best option for the green malt may be to just malt it at home, if there is not much of it needed you may be able to use a home dehydrator.

 
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:38 PM   #4
bdh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obliviousbrew View Post
Thatīs a nice article I think the best option for the green malt may be to just malt it at home, if there is not much of it needed you may be able to use a home dehydrator.
Yeah, this would be a good option too if you can find raw barley and want to play around with germinating it.

 
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:00 PM   #5
loftybrewer
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Interesting. Applications for this method? Was thinking about a 100% wheat beer? Saw a few threads where people posted on that. A super-dry light beer? Wouldn't this be a great way to bring the yeast esters to the forefront in a session beer?

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:08 PM   #6
highgravitybacon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loftybrewer
Interesting. Applications for this method? Was thinking about a 100% wheat beer? Saw a few threads where people posted on that. A super-dry light beer? Wouldn't this be a great way to bring the yeast esters to the forefront in a session beer?
What is stopping you from doing a 100% wheat beer now?

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:13 PM   #7
loftybrewer
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First off - and I edited my last post but that disappeared - I found the original article, check it out:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Boston...m.-a0268215651

In it Koch says that the low-mash green malt didn't get the RDF that they wanted. They actually put the grain in the fermenters at 60F-70F for a period of weeks. So my original question stands: Wouldn't it turn into a lacto starter, or is the 60s too low?



As to the wheat question, I understand that malted wheat alone lacks the enzymes to convert enough of its starches in the typical mash schedule. The green malt could possibly introduce those without altering the flavor substantially. In fact, in one thread here someone suggested adding an enzyme solution - pretty much what green malt would produce, correct?

 
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:30 PM   #8
bdh
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I'm pretty sure they're not putting grains directly in the fermenters. Koch says:
Quote:
Take the enzyme rich liquid out of the mash tun, and put it in the fermenter for a couple of weeks.
The patent linked in Kai's article gives all the details about what they do:

Quote:
[0038] Further, a creation of a separate mash of green malt can provide an appropriate flexibility and a focused isolation of a specific enzyme, which can then be added at whichever point in the brewery process as desired. According to certain exemplary embodiments of the present disclosure, a mash at approximately 60.degree. C. and 65.degree. C., and more specifically at 63.degree. C. favoring beta-amylase and a mash at approximately 55.degree. C. and 60.degree. C., and more approximately 57.degree. C. favoring limit dextrinase can each be more effective when added at a specific point in the brewery process/procedure. Additionally, the mash can contain grain solids as well as liquids, that are known in the art to contribute excessive polyphenols, which themselves can cause problems downstream such as haze instability and harsh astringency. Thus, to overcome these deficiencies, it is possible (according to an exemplary embodiment of the present disclosure) to allow the mash to settle following the initial mixing, and then to remove the enzyme-rich supernatant liquid that has settled on the surface of the mash as the medium, with the option to then add to the brew at whichever point it is determined to be more effective.
They're specifically removing the grains before adding the 'green malt mash' to the fermenting wort to avoid starch haze and tannins.

 
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:39 AM   #9
loftybrewer
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OK, got it. I may resurrect this thread if I can actually perform this method and see it through to the end. It looks like nothing more than step-mashing green malt and isolating the "supernatant liquid" to add pre-boil and then again during fermentation. They claim 96% attenuation. We shall see.

 
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