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Old 11-03-2012, 10:57 PM   #11
whoaru99
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I don't have an element here to examine, but there certainly could be temperature specs for those screw connections. For example, 90*C, which means the wire and terminals connecting to them are supposed to be rated for 90*C or higher.

If you're using standard cordage like SJO, the typical stuff is rated 60*C.

Again, I don't know what the rating is on the element terminals but it might be worth checking to see if you really should be using some higher temp wires and high temp terminals at the element that are run out to a junction box at couple feet away where they splice to the lower temp rated wire.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:13 PM   #12
P-J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post
I don't have an element here to examine, but there certainly could be temperature specs for those screw connections. For example, 90*C, which means the wire and terminals connecting to them are supposed to be rated for 90*C or higher.

If you're using standard cordage like SJO, the typical stuff is rated 60*C.

Again, I don't know what the rating is on the element terminals but it might be worth checking to see if you really should be using some higher temp wires and high temp terminals at the element that are run out to a junction box at couple feet away where they splice to the lower temp rated wire.
Good points - However it has nothing to do with the problem that was experienced. What happened was a crimp connection between the wire end and the terminal lug failed - big time. That is IT. Nothing else happened.
...

 
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:28 AM   #13
whoaru99
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I agree. A poor connection caused localized heating, I^2R and all that sort of thing. I was thinking of the repair/rewiring modifications.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:43 AM   #14
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Well:
He used #12 wire to power a 2000W 120V element.
The current draw is 16.67A.
#12 wire is more than capable for handling that current flow.

Rewiring/repair/modifications? No problem. It was a really bad crimp after all. Nothing else!

 
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:59 AM   #15
whoaru99
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Yeah, I understand what caused the failure. A poor/high resistance connection and ~15A of current. If there was a perfect connection of 0 ohms there would be no heating and burning of that joint because there would be zero for the R in I^2R, thus zero watts of heat in the connection. For sake of discussion let's say the bad connection resistance is 1 ohms, now instead of zero watts of heat at that point there would be 225W of localized heating. So, yeah, I get that.

The additional info on the wiring and terminal temp ratings were just that, additional info. As long as you're going have to redo it might as well redo it using the proper materials...if they aren't, but that's just me. That temp rating stuff is irrespective of (or perhaps better to say in addition to) using the proper gauge of wire for the load.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post
...
The additional info on the wiring and terminal temp ratings were just that, additional info. As long as you're going have to redo it might as well redo it using the proper materials...if they aren't, but that's just me. That temp rating stuff is irrespective of (or perhaps better to say in addition to) using the proper gauge of wire for the load.
You most certainly entitled to your opinion.

Me? I think you are reaching for..
Quote:
if they aren't
Nevermind... I'm done...

 
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:13 AM   #17
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It's not my opinion, it's NEC.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:08 AM   #18
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P-J,
For those of us that have never soldered a crimped connection, can you offer a few tips / techniques? I've crimped my share of connectors and I've soldered a few connections, but never both. In my mind I'm at a chicken / egg crossroad.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:17 AM   #19
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Crimp first, solder second.

Be sure you're using rosin core solder. For terminals like that a soldering gun works better than a pencil iron unless it's a good-sized iron.

The parts need to be pretty clean for the solder to flow, even though the rosin core flux helps that.

Key is to heat the iron/gun, put a small dab of solder on the tip then put that on the joint to be soldered. That tiny blob helps the heat conduct much better into the parts. Then, after a second or two, touch the solder to the joint (where the crimp sleeve and the wire meet) and it should melt and flow into the joint. Pull away the solder after sufficient amount had gone into the joint (doesn't take too much) but continue to heat for just a little longer. You don't want to add so much solder that it wicks way up the wire and makes it stiff past the crimp fitting. When you pull away the iron/gun, don't disturb the joint until the solder had cooled sufficiently to solidify otherwise you can get a grainy, poor joint.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:27 AM   #20
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This is how I do it...

Crimp the ring terminal on normally, but smear a little plumbing paste flux on the wire and ring terminal first, and make sure that both parts are CLEAN and that means SHINY copper...I don't know what you use to crimp, but I use a 1/8"" punch on the center of the terminal's collar and punch the *&% out of it. This really locks the terminal on. In the past I used to use a bench vise and smash it good, but I think the punch method locks it on better.

Forget irons. I fire up a bernz-o-matic torch and set it on my workbench. I hold the cord in my left hand, and the solder in my right. The torch just sits there. It doesn't hurt to put a dab of flux on the joint. Then I put the tip of the ring terminal in the torch. NOT the joint. The heat will conduct from the ring down to the joint. If you directly heat the joint there is a higher risk that you will oxidize the surface and then the solder won't flow, or you will melt the insulation.

With the tip of the ring terminal in the flame, every 3-5 seconds I press the solder against the joint to see if it's hot enough to melt the solder yet. As soon as it is, I soak it with solder and take the terminal out of the torch flame.

 
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