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10-21-2012, 08:28 PM   #11
ajdelange
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Aug 2010
McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 9,142
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Each malt has it's own 'acidity'. Think of each malt as a spring with a particular length and stiffness (spring constant). If you just place the spring on a table it will lie there at its natural length. This is analogous to the pH of the malt in DI water. Some malts (base malts) have DI pH's close to 5.8, some closer to 5.6. Darker malts have lower pH's (lengths). Each has it's own stiffness. This is analogous to the buffering capacity of the malt. When you make a mash it's like connecting two railroad cars with all these springs at once. The longer ones will try to stretch the shorter ones and the shorter ones will try to compress the longer ones. How far apart the cars lie at equilibrium depends on each spring with the stiffest dominating. Note that one of the definitions of the word 'buffer' is a spring arrangement designed to keep rail cars separated.

If the springs are Hookian (the force depends linearly on the compression or elongation) it's easy to figure out how far apart the cars will wind up. By analogy if the malts buffering capacities are linear functions of the pH displacement it's easy to figure out the mash pH. The real problem in doing all this is in determining the spring constants for the malts. If it were easy to do you would have found info in your texts and the maltsters would publish the data.

10-21-2012, 08:40 PM   #12
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!

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Jun 2006
UP of Michigan, Winter Texan
Posts: 69,415
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One thing you asked a few posts back was about changing the sulfate for a beer like an IPA. The answer is "yes, but....."

What I mean is this- some water profiles have you adding up to 300 ppm of sulfate for IPAs and other hoppy beers. In my experience, I prefer IPAs with much less sulfate, more like 50 to 100 ppm.

One thing that these water gurus suggested was make the IPA with less additions the first time. Then add a little gypsum to the glass, to see if you prefer it. Some do- I think mabrungard prefers more sulfate- and some don't (like me). The best answer is "try it and see". If you go low on additions the first time, the beer will still be great. It may not have the hops "pop" so much, but it will still be great.

I made an IPA today with mostly RO water (all RO for the sparge water), and used 5 grams of gypsum and 3 grams of calcium chloride, for 15 gallons of brewing water (a 10 gallon batch). That's pretty minimal, but it's how I like my IPA!
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10-21-2012, 09:54 PM   #13
KaSaBiS
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Mar 2011
Cincinnati, ohio
Posts: 145
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I will put a touch of gypsum in my latest house pale ale and see if that is what it is missing.

as far as the water profile for my next dunkelweizen recipe. I am currently tweaking the additions and just darkened it up to 19.6 srm. Is my soon to be made water profile too high in alkalinity (234)and bicarbonates (282)? I think this is necessary to counteract the newly added dark malts but how to brew states that the range is 0-250ppm at the higher end releasing more tannins. im targeting the mash temp ph (room temp) in the middle at 5.6 (at mash temp 5.3) and do not know how to increase mash ph to stay at target without going over the recommended alkalinity as was stated
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ajdelange I often say the first of the cardinal rules of brewing is 'alkalinity = bad'.

also I will add that beersmith estimates a 19.6 srm and bru'n estimates 21.8

I added baking soda to bump up the Na for a roundness of the malt. but the traditional munich profile is very low

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Common N00B I just got a Mr Beer kit and want to brew a Double Imperial Blueberry Heffy Witesit....we have no air conditioning and live next to the sun...do you think I can logger and bottle this in time for a party I will be having next week?

10-21-2012, 10:17 PM   #14
KaSaBiS
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Mar 2011
Cincinnati, ohio
Posts: 145
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or if you cannot read the screenshots (and I dropped the ph slightly to avoid over alkaline water) this is my brewing notes for this 6 gallon batch

-80% RO water to achieve 5.5 mash ph (at room temp or 5.2 at mash temp)
in mash:
-1.6g baking soda (NaHCO3), 1.6g Calcium Chloride (CaCl2), 1.2g Pickling lime (Ca(OH)2)
in sparge:
-2.8g Calcium Chloride (CaCl2), 3.3ml Lactic Acid 88%

Water profile:
Ca=81
Mg=1.8
Na=41
SO4 (Sulfate)=16
Cl (Chloride)=62
Bicarbonate=239
Hardness=209
Alkalinity=198
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Common N00B I just got a Mr Beer kit and want to brew a Double Imperial Blueberry Heffy Witesit....we have no air conditioning and live next to the sun...do you think I can logger and bottle this in time for a party I will be having next week?

10-22-2012, 12:16 AM   #15
mabrungard

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Feb 2011
Carmel, IN
Posts: 4,144
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There is no target or range for alkalinity or bicarbonate. There is only the amount needed to achieve an acceptable mash pH. Don't be constrained by what How to Brew says, its not correct.

I also note that you have the Pils and Wheat malts listed as Crystal malts. They are Base malts. There isn't a big difference in the slope of their acidity vs color, but its worth mentioning.
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Carmel, IN
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