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Old 01-28-2013, 02:17 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by BadMrFrosty View Post
Excellent thread, assuming I can get hold of the yeast I giving this a try.

I have seen vinegar mentioned as a negative result several times in this thread but what if I wanted to make vinegar? Having a bottle of it in the cupboard would be great as I do loads of SE Asian cooking and always have to sub it for something else. So how to make vinegar on purpose?
Just leave it in the bottle with lid a bit loose, at room temp, and with time it will turn into rice wine vinegar. It changes colors with time, wait long enough and it turns dark brown/black. You can start cooking with it immediately though, very nice touch...made stir fry the other night and used it to deglaze my wok.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:18 PM   #512
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Do you plan to pitch new yeast balls if there is no lift off, or try adding amylase first if things go not as planned?
I came across an article which I cannot find now, of course, that talked about how the starchy mass leftover from this type of project is blended with rice flour and shaped into balls and allowed to air dry and establish a new yeast colony. But they never disclosed how the amylase comes in to play, perhaps it is a chain reaction as the yeast ball dries?
Perhaps the amylase spores require dry mass to reproduce. Just speculating...
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:50 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by saramc View Post
Do you plan to pitch new yeast balls if there is no lift off, or try adding amylase first if things go not as planned?
I came across an article which I cannot find now, of course, that talked about how the starchy mass leftover from this type of project is blended with rice flour and shaped into balls and allowed to air dry and establish a new yeast colony. But they never disclosed how the amylase comes in to play, perhaps it is a chain reaction as the yeast ball dries?
I believe the amylase enzyme is produced by the fungus that is growing in the rice during the fermentation. I used 1 yeast ball to about 3 cups of cooked rice. According to the ratios on here that would have been short on the enzymes if they had all been stored in the dried yeast balls.

If nothing happens I'll just throw the rice out. It's 1 1/2 cups of cheap dry rice. My compost pile won't mind it at all.
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Perhaps the amylase spores require dry mass to reproduce. Just speculating...
That had occured to me too. If the amylase producing fungus can be propagated from mycelium instead of spores this should work just fine. I don't think the yeast will mind being treated like this.

If the fungus can only be propagated from spores, then this experiment will probably fail. Most fungus won't produce spores until they think they are reaching the end of there life cycle. IE: They dry out or get cold, depending on the species.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:18 PM   #514
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Originally Posted by Leadgolem View Post
I believe the amylase enzyme is produced by the fungus that is growing in the rice during the fermentation. I used 1 yeast ball to about 3 cups of cooked rice. According to the ratios on here that would have been short on the enzymes if they had all been stored in the dried yeast balls.
I don't think all balls are created equal, I just came back from my local Asian market and the ones I picked up are in 100 gram packs and contain 8 balls of varying sizes. Going by the ratio a few pages back of 10 grams ball to 0.55 (~2.5 cups) grams rice means that with my massive balls I would need less than one for 3 cups and still achieve the recommended ratio.

So come on people, weigh your balls and give us some precise numbers on the ratios you have all be using!!!

PS. Cheers for the info on making the vinegar guys.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:01 PM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadgolem View Post
I believe the amylase enzyme is produced by the fungus that is growing in the rice during the fermentation. I used 1 yeast ball to about 3 cups of cooked rice. According to the ratios on here that would have been short on the enzymes if they had all been stored in the dried yeast balls.

If nothing happens I'll just throw the rice out. It's 1 1/2 cups of cheap dry rice. My compost pile won't mind it at all.
That had occured to me too. If the amylase producing fungus can be propagated from mycelium instead of spores this should work just fine. I don't think the yeast will mind being treated like this.

If the fungus can only be propagated from spores, then this experiment will probably fail. Most fungus won't produce spores until they think they are reaching the end of there life cycle. IE: They dry out or get cold, depending on the species.
Not necessarily. As I mentioned before, the ratio I use is way overkill.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:15 AM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMrFrosty View Post
I don't think all balls are created equal, I just came back from my local Asian market and the ones I picked up are in 100 gram packs and contain 8 balls of varying sizes. Going by the ratio a few pages back of 10 grams ball to 0.55 (~2.5 cups) grams rice means that with my massive balls I would need less than one for 3 cups and still achieve the recommended ratio.

So come on people, weigh your balls and give us some precise numbers on the ratios you have all be using!!!

PS. Cheers for the info on making the vinegar guys.
Mine are 1/3 of an ounce each.

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Not necessarily. As I mentioned before, the ratio I use is way overkill.
That is another reason to do the experiment.

If the saccharification was due to a large influx of enzyme at the beginning of the process, I would expect it to have happened a lot faster. A gradual production of the enzyme would seem to be more in line with what is being observed in the jars of yumminess.

That, and the way sake is made, leads me to believe that the enzyme is being produced by the fungus.

In any event, it should be an interesting experiment.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:25 AM   #517
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Here's my 12 oz bottle of rice wine after 2 days in the fridge. I may not need to use anything to clear it after all. I'll probably decant it when I harvest the large batch next week. I don't want to tip the bottle enough to taste the cleared liquid until I'm ready to pour it off the solids completely.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:26 AM   #518
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That cleared pretty nicely!
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:09 AM   #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMrFrosty View Post
I don't think all balls are created equal, I just came back from my local Asian market and the ones I picked up are in 100 gram packs and contain 8 balls of varying sizes. Going by the ratio a few pages back of 10 grams ball to 0.55 (~2.5 cups) grams rice means that with my massive balls I would need less than one for 3 cups and still achieve the recommended ratio.

So come on people, weigh your balls and give us some precise numbers on the ratios you have all be using!!!

PS. Cheers for the info on making the vinegar guys.
My Balls () are 10grams each, i use 3 in about 3-4 cups of dry rice, i split this rice into 2 containers (each one has 3 balls in) and i get about 1.5 liters of good wine, made two batches now and both have worked out just fine.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:12 AM   #520
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Here's my 12 oz bottle of rice wine after 2 days in the fridge. I may not need to use anything to clear it after all. I'll probably decant it when I harvest the large batch next week. I don't want to tip the bottle enough to taste the cleared liquid until I'm ready to pour it off the solids completely.
that looks great mate, just what mine looks like after standing, i didn't decant mine as i found even tipping the bottle up to pour a shot disturbs the sediment so i usually drank some with the wine...and im still here!!
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