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Old 11-29-2013, 02:57 AM   #51
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Also, considering we know they use Carastan and British yeast, is it possible they're using British Crystal rather than US crystal? I have British light and medium crystal on hand, so I might see if those would be appropriate here as well.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:24 AM   #52
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OK, I'm brewing this again now. I've made a couple more changes based on my own tasting as well as notes here. First, I note that many people guess that Deschutes uses Great Western Pale Ale Malt instead of regular 2-row, which gives it some additional depth and richness. I agree that it could contribute, but I don't have it available here at my LHBS, so I got some Gambrinus ESB Pale Malt instead. It's also a little darker and richer than regular 2-row, but not as nutty/toasty as Maris Otter. I'm going with the 50/50 split of C40 and C90 as well. Finally, I'm splitting the late Centennial addition into a 15 minute and 5 minute because I feel like there's a substantial Centennial flavor and the OP stated his didn't have quite as much hop flavor as the original.

I'll keep everyone posted!
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:03 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crjpilot View Post
OK, I'm brewing this again now. I've made a couple more changes based on my own tasting as well as notes here. First, I note that many people guess that Deschutes uses Great Western Pale Ale Malt instead of regular 2-row, which gives it some additional depth and richness. I agree that it could contribute, but I don't have it available here at my LHBS, so I got some Gambrinus ESB Pale Malt instead. It's also a little darker and richer than regular 2-row, but not as nutty/toasty as Maris Otter. I'm going with the 50/50 split of C40 and C90 as well. Finally, I'm splitting the late Centennial addition into a 15 minute and 5 minute because I feel like there's a substantial Centennial flavor and the OP stated his didn't have quite as much hop flavor as the original.

I'll keep everyone posted!
Yep, keep us posted. I've got my 4th attempt in the bucket now but eagerly awaiting my next attempt at splitting up the crystal. I feel like my 3 attempts have been close but not quite sweet enough and not enough citrus taste / aroma.

 
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:32 AM   #54
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crjpilot, did you get a FG sample tasting yet?
no rush over here, just wanted to see if you've nailed it.. guess i'll have to wait until it carbs, huh..

do tell!
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:01 PM   #55
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crjpilot, did you get a FG sample tasting yet?
no rush over here, just wanted to see if you've nailed it.. guess i'll have to wait until it carbs, huh..

do tell!
Good timing. Actually, it is kegged and carbed now, so I did just do a taste test. Fortunately, with this year's batch of Red Chair just hitting the shelves, I was able to compare it to a fresh one. I have my girlfriend test along with me because I think her palate is slightly different, so it's good to get some comparison. Here are my latest notes:

Appearance - I had a little chill haze, so it appears slightly darker, but it's pretty close still. Close enough that I wouldn't tweak anything.

Aroma - Again, very close. I sense just slightly more Cascade in the actual Red Chair, but it's very slight. My girlfriend swears they're identical. The amount of aroma seems equal.

Taste - This is always the tough one. Overall taste is quite similar. I would say mine has a slightly higher perceived bitterness, but I think this might be accounted for more in water profile than actual recipe design. The bitterness seems to linger more in the finish more so than actually be more bitter. Hop flavor seems to be the same. Sweetness seems to be the same. I think the combination of Crystal malts helped round out the malt profile.

Mouthfeel - Here's where I noticed the most difference. The fresh Red Chair just seemed softer, smoother, and more well-blended where I still felt mine was a little bit heavier and kind of muddled. I felt like mine just sort of landed on my tongue with more of an impact where the Red Chair seemed to wash over with a better layering of flavors and feeling.

So, my first inclination is to up the Pilsner Malt a fair amount and drop the 2-Row down to try to get a softer mouthfeel. Second, I might tweak the water a bit to bring down the perceived bitterness. Third, I might still consider some tweaks to the C40/C90/Carastan combination to up the C40 more and drop the C90 just a bit. This might make the flavor profile a little "cleaner" in that there's slightly more sweetness and not so much of the darker flavors.

All in all, it's really close and very drinkable, but I'm still going to keep working at it!
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:28 AM   #56
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Tried my latest attempt (using US-04) against the commercial stuff.



Though I haven't tried yet, I think I'd be hard pressed to separare the two in a triangle test and lick the Red Chair.

In my opinion, the slight differences have to be water related. I keep tinkering with water profile, and I'm not getting the mouthfeel difference that crj is getting. Of course there is so much variation with homebrew scale relating to ingredients, water, fermentation, and equipment, so I'm not sure what else I'll try. I'm officially happy with it!

 
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:35 AM   #57
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Oh, and check serving temp. Out of my kegerator it is nearly 10*f then from a bottle out of the fridge. That temp difference makes a huge difference in aroma and mouthfeel.

Thanks for the continued feedback crj.

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Old 12-30-2013, 06:05 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by AZ_IPA View Post
Oh, and check serving temp. Out of my kegerator it is nearly 10*f then from a bottle out of the fridge. That temp difference makes a huge difference in aroma and mouthfeel.

Thanks for the continued feedback crj.
I agree that temp makes a big difference. I adjusted my kegerator temp after the first taste test and it now pours with a more pronounced and "accurate" aroma. The flavor has improved as well, so I'd say it's VERY close.
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:41 PM   #59
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Came across this a couple months ago and brewed a partial mash/extract version. I haven't had the Red Chair but this one came out really nice. Very pleased with the malt profile and the hops combo. I was a little quick with it trying to get ready for Thanksgiving so fermented for 12 days and kegged. Took about 2 weeks for it to clear (still tasted fine) but the keg didn't last very long after that. Getting ready to put this together again. Thanks for the recipe.
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:46 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_IPA View Post
Tried my latest attempt (using US-04) against the commercial stuff.



Though I haven't tried yet, I think I'd be hard pressed to separare the two in a triangle test and lick the Red Chair.

In my opinion, the slight differences have to be water related. I keep tinkering with water profile, and I'm not getting the mouthfeel difference that crj is getting. Of course there is so much variation with homebrew scale relating to ingredients, water, fermentation, and equipment, so I'm not sure what else I'll try. I'm officially happy with it!
So do you have any thoughts re GW Pale Malt vs. GW 2-Row? I made a Mirror Pond last month with the Pale (3 SRM) and it was pretty nice. Or is the higher mash doing it for you with the regular 2-row?

 
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