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Old 12-11-2012, 04:36 PM   #11
Montanaandy
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[QUOTE=sweetcell;4671565]the proposed need for 2 packs is a little disappointing, especially considering the increased price.

Yes the idea of spending $11 on yeast alone or almost 2 x what I would pay for fresh liquid yeast poses a problem. I guess if the results are outstanding (say along the lines of 3724) but with the ease of use of dry yeast then it would arguably be worth it. Interested in hearing about the experiences/results of those who have used this yeast.

 
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:51 PM   #12
PaulD428
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That makes sense to me. I've heard Jamil say on his show that you should slightly underpitch with belgian style yeasts, as the strain that it can cause will add some of those desirable flavors you're looking for (cloves, phenols, etc.).

Also, I've never pitched more than one packet for a batch before and have never had an issue with underpitching (Albeit with beers under 1.060).

I'll probably try to make a table saison with this yeast with one pack and see how it turns out. It's still a little disappointing that the only difference between this and a liquid yeast version is only $.75, though.

 
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:23 PM   #13
sweetcell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulD428 View Post
That makes sense to me. I've heard Jamil say on his show that you should slightly underpitch with belgian style yeasts, as the strain that it can cause will add some of those desirable flavors you're looking for (cloves, phenols, etc.).
right, many of those flavors come during the growth stage - they by-products of yeast reproduction. underpitching = need for more growth to compensate for low population = more flavors. so if we're pitching 1 billion cells, there will be no growth... so no (or less) flavors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulD428 View Post
Also, I've never pitched more than one packet for a batch before and have never had an issue with underpitching (Albeit with beers under 1.060).
which also makes sense - one pack is 500 millions cells, which is way more than the suggested amount. the yeast will reproduce a little to make up the missing population. at least that's what makes sense to me.


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Originally Posted by PaulD428 View Post
I'll probably try to make a table saison with this yeast with one pack and see how it turns out. It's still a little disappointing that the only difference between this and a liquid yeast version is only $.75, though.
using just one pack might actually lead to a better beer - if i'm right, you'll get some growth (and more flavors) with one pack but won't get any with 2.

i wonder if Danstar is recommending 2 packs to ensure that the beer ferments completely, and to boost sales. sort of the opposite approach taken by liquid yeast sellers who encourage us to under-pitch.
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- Drinking: BPA made with ingredients from NHC, 2 blends of a rye sour: ECY20 + ECY34, local sour cherry kriek #2, brett'ed Belgian blond on raspberries
- Aging: Imperial Chocolate Milk Stout (half on coconut), sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine (half on brett), 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, sour cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:04 PM   #14
atonofhops
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If I may interject.....I have been a long time user of Danstar I have used all of their yeasts(execpt the lager) I have used them with and with out making starters and never used more than 1 pack in any brew even my moneter 14% Imperial Milk Stout. I see no reason to buy 2 packs of this yeast I just purchased 3 packs of the saison yeast for evaluation. I have done the same for all of the danstar yeasts. I will make 3 5 gallon beers(same grain bill or extract) I will pitch dry yeast in one the rehydrated yeast in the next and last I will make a starter. I keep notes on fermentation progression. With the others time seems to be the only factor the starters worked to fg much faster. There has been only a minor diffrence in flavors and aromas between all 3 methods. I beleive the diffrences would not be noticible to the average person. I will proceed with my evaluations asap and report back when done.

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Old 12-23-2012, 04:29 PM   #15
Montanaandy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atonofhops View Post
If I may interject.....I have been a long time user of Danstar I have used all of their yeasts(execpt the lager) I have used them with and with out making starters and never used more than 1 pack in any brew even my moneter 14% Imperial Milk Stout. I see no reason to buy 2 packs of this yeast I just purchased 3 packs of the saison yeast for evaluation. I have done the same for all of the danstar yeasts. I will make 3 5 gallon beers(same grain bill or extract) I will pitch dry yeast in one the rehydrated yeast in the next and last I will make a starter. I keep notes on fermentation progression. With the others time seems to be the only factor the starters worked to fg much faster. There has been only a minor diffrence in flavors and aromas between all 3 methods. I beleive the diffrences would not be noticible to the average person. I will proceed with my evaluations asap and report back when done.
Great that you are going to test this yeast out under varying conditions. Looking forward to your results...

 
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:12 PM   #16
atonofhops
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I am guessing it will be late January or early feb, before I can report on this, I do not expect it to arive before jan1 I will be making this brew an extract for simplicity and speed, 6lb wheat extract ekg hops for bittering only.

 
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:04 AM   #17
TNGabe
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$5.50 for dry yeast I need two packs of? WTF?
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:18 AM   #18
afr0byte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcell View Post
the proposed need for 2 packs is a little disappointing, especially considering the increased price.

i've just noticed that Danstar recommends the same dosing amount for all their ale yeasts - 2 packs per 5 gallons. according to their fact sheet, each pack contains 5x10^9 cells. unless my math skillz have gone completely out the window, that's 500 million cells (500,000,000). so 2 packs would be pitching 1 billion cells - which is what the total population of cells in a yeast cake is after fermentation. so, in other words, when pitching dry yeast we are not assuming any population growth? i guess that would explain why aeration isn't needed - O2 is required for reproduction, and pitching that high means reproduction isn't required.

since so many flavors come from the growth phase, should we pitch less than the suggested amount, which will cause the yeast to grow?

thoughts?
5x10^9 == 5 billion, not 500 million, and I'd wager that's 5 billion per gram of dry yeast.

EDIT: I just checked. The PDF datasheet for Nottingham (should be the same as the other ale yeasts I'd imagine) says there are at least 5 x 10^9 (5 billion) cells per gram of dry yeast.

 
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afr0byte View Post
5x10^9 == 5 billion, not 500 million, and I'd wager that's 5 billion per gram of dry yeast.

EDIT: I just checked. The PDF datasheet for Nottingham (should be the same as the other ale yeasts I'd imagine) says there are at least 5 x 10^9 (5 billion) cells per gram of dry yeast.
yeah, my numbers were off in my original post. i was all over the place... sorry. i blame it on the homebrew

in another thread, someone mentioned that 5 x 10^9 (5 billion) cells per gram is indeed the minimum, with 20 billion/g being a more realistic number for reasonably fresh and well handled (refrigerated) dry yeast. therefore an 11.5 g packet should contain about 220 billion cells. this is typically the amount of cells ones pitches in an average 5.5 gallon batch.
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What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?
- Drinking: BPA made with ingredients from NHC, 2 blends of a rye sour: ECY20 + ECY34, local sour cherry kriek #2, brett'ed Belgian blond on raspberries
- Aging: Imperial Chocolate Milk Stout (half on coconut), sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine (half on brett), 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, sour cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:47 PM   #20
Chuckabrewski
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Just got this yeast in a brewers best kit. The kit Making a Belgian Golden Ale 7.5-8% and came with one pack. Ill post results in a few weeks.
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