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Old 10-03-2012, 11:11 PM   #51
grimstuff
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There should be a selection on MrMalty and other pitching calculators for whether you're a "by the books" person or a "good enough" person. Literature says pitching rates are important. How important, and for what types of beers, and for what volumes, and personal taste, makes all the difference. And those things can't be adequately addressed here.

You can learn from the books or learn from experience. Most of the wisdom on this forum comes from other peoples' experience. Most of the time, that's good enough for me.



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Old 10-03-2012, 11:41 PM   #52
zachattack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimstuff View Post
There should be a selection on MrMalty and other pitching calculators for whether you're a "by the books" person or a "good enough" person. Literature says pitching rates are important. How important, and for what types of beers, and for what volumes, and personal taste, makes all the difference. And those things can't be adequately addressed here.

You can learn from the books or learn from experience. Most of the wisdom on this forum comes from other peoples' experience. Most of the time, that's good enough for me.
Well said



 
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:44 PM   #53
Pilgarlic
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I have no objection to people choosing to ignore certain techniques or information. That's perfectly legit. What's wrong, and annoying, is to take a position that is absolutely counter to that which has been well established and say "prove I'm wrong". Here's what's been established: i) the failure to (properly) rehydrate dry yeast results in a loss of viability (of about 50%). ii) different pitching rates alter yeast growth and fermentation in ways that change the beer that results. Now, you can say "I don't care, I like my beer and I sprinkle." Or you can say "I'm willing to ignore all that because I just don't see the reason to take all that trouble." That's fine with everyone. Those are your opinions. You're entitled to them. But, as the saw goes, you're not entitled to your own facts, so, although you can say "rehydration doesn't make any difference that I care about" you can't say "rehydration doesn't make any difference". It does. Rehydration results in a higher pitching rate and higher pitching rates change beers.

That having been said, when I'm brewing a 1.050 beer with dry yeast, I sprinkle because a 50% viability gives me a good pitching rate and I don't want the contamination risk inherent in rehydrating. With a larger beer, I'll generally rehydrate.

 
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:24 AM   #54
jfr1111
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I now rehydrate because I have found that it usually results in a shorter lag times ON MY SYSTEM. Safale has different protocols for the home brewer, printed on the 11g sachet (ie. "do not rehydrate or baby Jesus will harm a puppy!"), than on the 500g bricks that they sell to commercial brewers, which includes instructions for rehydrating.

Still, there are a lot of hazy information surrounding dry yeast. Danstar states that 1g = 5 billion cells on their packets, and THEY DO include instructions for rehydration, while, on the other hand, White and Jamil state that when they contacted dry yeast manufacturers, the consensus was around 20 billion cells by gram. Is that figure for rehydrated yeast or not ? And what about viability ? MrMalty calculates viability from production date, yet, the last tiem I looked, there was only a best by date on most dry yeast. While MrMalty says that to ge the production date, you have to substract a year to the best by date, I must come from the future because all of the dry yeast in my fridge expires somewhere in 2014...

There's also the fact that the vast majority of us do not have the equipment for precise cell counts (which are precise in the sense that they are vastly more precise approximations of the real pitch rate): we go by what calculators and formulas tell us, programs and formulas that often do not take into account many variables or who will approximate such variables (I'm looking at you slurry thickness slidebar on the MrMalty website).

All that long winded novel to tell people to take a chill pill. If sprinkling works for you fine, there is still science that proves that rehydrating is better to preserve cell viability. If rehydrating works for you and you feel it is better, fine, but be aware that you might not be pitching as much viable yeast as you think you are (rehydrating protocols are pretty precise and I'd wager a good number of us don't follow them to the letter) and that it might not make a night or day difference to only sprinkle.

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Old 10-04-2012, 12:53 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfr1111 View Post
(I'm looking at you slurry thickness slidebar on the MrMalty website)


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Old 10-04-2012, 01:58 AM   #56
grimstuff
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Save the principled stands for politics and religion. This is a brewing website!

 
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:52 AM   #57
y2jrock60
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I always rehydrate dry yeast. It helps kill sometime while the beer is cooling. It doesn't look right dumping little tiny balls into the beer. I like to dump a slurry of yeast into my beer. It probably doesn't matter if it's re-hydrated or not though.

 
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:52 PM   #58
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As the OP of this thread, many thanks one and all, but before we drop it, what about yeast slants where we have very few cells that we have to grow up to a colony with billions of cells before we pitch, which is why I asked why not use 1/10 of a packet of dry yeast for each brew and hydrate, then grow on with sterilised 1.020 wort.

 
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:15 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBTHEukBREWER View Post
As the OP of this thread, many thanks one and all, but before we drop it, what about yeast slants where we have very few cells that we have to grow up to a colony with billions of cells before we pitch, which is why I asked why not use 1/10 of a packet of dry yeast for each brew and hydrate, then grow on with sterilised 1.020 wort.
There's no reason you couldn't do that. I think the reason most people don't is that dry yeast is so cheap to begin with.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:35 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBTHEukBREWER View Post
As the OP of this thread, many thanks one and all, but before we drop it, what about yeast slants where we have very few cells that we have to grow up to a colony with billions of cells before we pitch, which is why I asked why not use 1/10 of a packet of dry yeast for each brew and hydrate, then grow on with sterilised 1.020 wort.
Dry yeast will spoil (viability loss + contamination) very rapidly once the packet has been opened, which is why I don't get how some lhbs get away with buying 500g bricks and repackaging. For 10 brews in the same week, it might work, but you'll be spending so much time on starters and DME that it's really not worth the costs imho.



 
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