Trappist Westvleteren 12

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landhoney

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I was thinking of skipping my last homebrew club meeting b/c I was busy, and b/c last week I was the only one to bring beer! Man am I glad I decided to go. New guy brings one of the $15+ hard to find Westvleteren 12's! What's interesting is I brought a bottle of St.Bernardus 12, so it was interesting to compare the two side by side.
The 'West' 12 was much more complex and tasty. Super malty and sweet, but it had a nice dry, simple finish that made it very drinkable. Very dark, complex sweet dark fruity aroma. Flavor was everything you'd want, dark fruit, bready, toffee/caramel, big malt.
It really blew the Bernardus out of the water, eventhough the bernardus is a great beer IMHO. If you can try this beer please do, its #1 of all beers on beeradvocate, and if you like the style I don't think it gets much better. I am amazed at the clean/dry finish after the initial assault of flavor/malt/sweetness. Most beers I think, "I could brew that" but this one.....wow if only. Something to aspire to, I don't know how do they do it - so many flavors/aromas. In the belgian, non-sour, category its the best I've ever had.
 
landhoney said:
I was thinking of skipping my last homebrew club meeting b/c I was busy, and b/c last week I was the only one to bring beer! Man am I glad I decided to go. New guy brings one of the $15+ hard to find Westvleteren 12's! What's interesting is I brought a bottle of St.Bernardus 12, so it was interesting to compare the two side by side.
The 'West' 12 was much more complex and tasty. Super malty and sweet, but it had a nice dry, simple finish that made it very drinkable. Very dark, complex sweet dark fruity aroma. Flavor was everything you'd want, dark fruit, bready, toffee/caramel, big malt.
It really blew the Bernardus out of the water, eventhough the bernardus is a great beer IMHO. If you can try this beer please do, its #1 of all beers on beeradvocate, and if you like the style I don't think it gets much better. I am amazed at the clean/dry finish after the initial assault of flavor/malt/sweetness. Most beers I think, "I could brew that" but this one.....wow if only. Something to aspire to, I don't know how do they do it - so many flavors/aromas. In the belgian, non-sour, category its the best I've ever had.

One of my all-time favs. I snagged a few bottles while we still had some here at the shop...every session is transcendental!

I think that 75% of the greatness of these brews is the yeast (see: Fantome!). I never thought I could replicate the Rochefort 10, until I found out that the Wyeast Abbey II is actually Rochefort's strain. While it's not bottled yet, I swear it tastes almost exactly like the real thing out of the carboy. If you could find the yeast and do some research, you could re-create the St. Sixtus.
 
Westvleteren 12 is a truly amazing beer. I had it a couple years ago when I was touring Belgium. We met some locals that introduced us to it. They said "we must try the greatest beer in all of Belgium." It is great indeed!
 
I was thinking of ordering some off ebay, because I want to try it so bad and short of going to Belgium thats the only way to get one.
 
Yeah, this guy got his off ebay. I think he payed ~$100 for a six pack. Unfortunately if I'm going to be spending $100 on that approximate volume of alcohol it'll be wine, most likely a bordeaux to lay down for 10-20 years, not a six-pack of beer. Although it's almost worth it. I also can't imagine it would benefit from extended aging, how much more complex can it get? You might get a little oxidation bringing sherry 'notes' to the party but I'm not sure the other flavors might not suffer. I'd find somebody to go in on it with you, its a great experience but maybe not worth the pricetag on your own.
I think its almost too good/intense to drink regularly although just one would be very drinkable. Unless you could get it regularly and afford it, drinking too much could ruin you on other belgians of the same general type. Like how most of us don't like BMC and how I can't drink what most consider 'good' wine. You know what I mean? I remember what the beer was like, but I'll still appreciate other belgian quads and dubbels. If I drank a whole six pack I might have the beer so engrained that others would pale in comparison and thus be not as enjoyable. Maybe not, I don't know. Definitely worth trying and aspiring to brew something similar. In fact, I was going to slow down on belgian styles for a while, but this made me want to hone my belgian skills and brew another!
 
yeah when I was telling my roommate about it, he looked like I was crazy, I have found some that would be about 70 for the six pack. And when I consider I have spent 10 bucks on single beers before It does not seem to bad. Maybe ill just have to settle with finding a clone and brewing it.
 
Ryanh1801 said:
yeah when I was telling my roommate about it, he looked like I was crazy, I have found some that would be about 70 for the six pack. And when I consider I have spent 10 bucks on single beers before It does not seem to bad. Maybe ill just have to settle with finding a clone and brewing it.

$70 out the door wouldn't be too bad, and honestly I think you'd have to try it before cloning it. I agree with Evan that a lot of its greatness must be from the yeast, if you can replicate the beer even closely you'll have something great. It's just so different/interesting/complex that I can't imagine being able to clone it. Most beers I think, "I could brew something like this." But not this one, I'm obviously inexperienced brewing < 1year, but it seems way beyond my capabilities
at present to come really close to replicating it.
 
6704-IMG_6158.JPG
 
And here they've been giving me cheap port at communion at my church - your church serves Westvleteren!;) Where you at? I'm comin':rockin:
 
I was luck enough to get the chance to go to Belgium. The picture is in the In de Vrede, which is the cafe next to the abbay of Saint Sixtus (Westvleteren) monastery. I also have a few souvenirs stashed away for a special occasion.
 
Great shot fifelee.....Glad I'm not the only tourist that was taking so many pics in there. ;) Here's mine:

WestySmall.jpg


I've also heard that it takes a good bit of temperature adjustments during fermentation to come close to duplicating Westy. And I also agree that Westy kicks St. Bernardus's behind, but it's still a great beer!
 
freyguy said:
Great shot fifelee.....Glad I'm not the only tourist that was taking so many pics in there. ;) Here's mine:
I've also heard that it takes a good bit of temperature adjustments during fermentation to come close to duplicating Westy. And I also agree that Westy kicks St. Bernardus's behind, but it's still a great beer!

What do you mean, temperature adjustments? You mean contolling fermentation temperature? Low, high?
 
freyguy said:
Great shot fifelee.....Glad I'm not the only tourist that was taking so many pics in there. ;) Here's mine:

I've also heard that it takes a good bit of temperature adjustments during fermentation to come close to duplicating Westy. And I also agree that Westy kicks St. Bernardus's behind, but it's still a great beer!

Great shot also freyguy. My wife didn't want to be a "tourist" and take pictures inside, but there was no way I was leaving beer mecca without some proof. Fresh westies are awesome. We also took a walk around the monastery and saw some hop fields. I am so jealous of the local farmers who have that place in their backyard.

Did you get a case? I really wanted to, but there was no way I was going to fit 24 beers into my luggage. Where else did you go in Belgium?
 
landhoney said:
What do you mean, temperature adjustments? You mean contolling fermentation temperature? Low, high?

I have no personal experience about brewing Trappist style beers, but I did recently listen to a podcast with a guy who got access to the Rochefort brewery. Rochefort (and I assume Westvleteren) brew many times during the week and put all the wort in the same fermenter, so the are basically feeding the fermentation. They also start the fermentation at about 66F and let it rise to 73F.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive/dwnldarchive06-17-07.mp3
 
Yes, definately a cool area. Unfortunately we couldn't get any beer to take home there. We didn't phone ahead for pickup at the monastary, and the cafe wouldn't sell us any to go, so we got screwed. We tried to pick it up back in Brussels somewhere, but had no luck. For now I have a six pack off of ebay (Sorry Monks!).

We were only there for 3 or so days, and mainly toured around Brussels. We took the trip to Westvleteren one day, then went to Brugge. Also a very cool city. We weren't able to take many tours of breweries since we tried on Sunday and mostly everything was closed. We did tour Cantillion and that was pretty neat. Sam Caglione from Dogfish had just been over there and brewed with them, so when we told John Pierre Sam sent us, they really took care of us. Except for the dang thief that stole our "Tom Tom" while we were in there. But on the plus side, the local Police were very cool while we were filing the report. We talked for a good while about american football and the like. Then they escorted us back to the airport since we had no clue how to get there without GPS. :D Avis really ripped us a new one at $800 bucks for a replacement, but what are you gonna do.

We're definately going back and you can betcha I'll be getting a case of westy. We just brought back some miscelaneous stuff that we can't get here. Like Guiness Export. Also a great beer.

And yes, I've heard that they let the fermentation temps raise during the fermentation to get the fruity esters, and then crash cool it later to help clear it. I've been dying to read the book "Brew like a monk" to find out some secrets.
 
freyguy said:
the cafe wouldn't sell us any to go, so we got screwed
That is funny. We where there in April and the cafe was selling four packs of the beer that came with a glass.

We also went to Brugge (my favorite place in Europe) & Brussels. Cantillion and and the Delirium cafe were some of the other highlights.
I also love the Guinness export. Went to Dublin in June. The Guinness Storeroom ("brewery tour") is cool, but a little to commercial for me.

freyguy said:
so when we told John Pierre Sam sent us, they really took care of us.
Sorry for hijacking your thread landhoney, but I have to ask freyguy another questions. How do you know Sam Caglione? His entrepreneurial spirit is really inspiring.
 
I would like to get to Dublin sometime, seems like beautiful country around there. I'm also hoping to get to Oktoberfest soon. I think that would be a cool beer destination....maybe mix in some Ampsterdam at the same time. :mug:

Since I live in DE, I'm always at Dogfish. I've been going to the beer dinners a good bit and when Sam is there he always comes around and talks to all the tables. I think I only missed a couple beer dinners down there this past year. Always an awesome experience. Sam is really cool and always has a story to tell you about everything. As is Mike Gerhart. He's even hooked us up with some of his yeast before. We didn't even ask. We were just talking and mentioned Homebrew, and he insisted we take some yeast. I'm waiting for a job opening that fits for me. I'd love to work for such a cool company. :)
 
Hijack away! Never a problem for me, my questions got answered - I'm listening to Jamil's podcast on Strong Dark Belgian's and he's saying the same thing: 68F ramp up to 73F, and how you can reserve your sugar till fermentation begins and then add it(similar to feeding with wort).
 
Use the westmalle yeast and start ferment at 68&#730; and let it rise to 82&#730; to 86&#730; accordcing to Brew like a Monk.
 
Isn't the Westmalle yeast the wlp500 - I am using this one b/c I like it, I thought there was another yeast closer to Westy's? If that's the right yeast that's great, otherwise I'm still using the first time to see how it comes out. Thanks for the tip.:mug:
 
The biggest difference between Westmalle and Westvleteren yeast is the name on the bottle. From BLaM p.81

On brewing days, a secular worker drives to Westmalle to pick up the yeast for primary fermentation. We don't know when Westvleteren quit using it's own yeast, which might live on in an alterer condition at Saint Bernardus (where Saint Sixtus was contract brewed)...

Westmalle is WLP530 or Wyeast 3787. The 500 is Chimay.
 
Catfish said:
The biggest difference between Westmalle and Westvleteren yeast is the name on the bottle. From BLaM p.81

On brewing days, a secular worker drives to Westmalle to pick up the yeast for primary fermentation. We don't know when Westvleteren quit using it's own yeast, which might live on in an alterer condition at Saint Bernardus (where Saint Sixtus was contract brewed)...

Westmalle is WLP530 or Wyeast 3787. The 500 is Chimay.

Thanks for the yeast info, next time I'll try one of those. It would be interesting if Westmalle made a quad/12 to compare the two.
 
I'm bumping this while sipping on a Westy 12. I was considering trying to harvest some yeast, but who knows if they use the same strain in the bottle. i am gathering that BLAM says the Westmalle and WestVleteren are the same strain, which is available commercially stateside. i have about 60 bottles of W12 in my cellar because I consider this to be the best beer I have ever had. Do I think it's overrated? No, I think it is underrated. I am an addict and proud of it. I do feel a little guilty since the monks don't approve, but i can't help myself. I have a source and I use it. I would like to try and brew a batch for kicks though. Any Westy fans out there?
 
korndog said:
I'm bumping this while sipping on a Westy 12. I was considering trying to harvest some yeast, but who knows if they use the same strain in the bottle. i am gathering that BLAM says the Westmalle and WestVleteren are the same strain, which is available commercially stateside. i have about 60 bottles of W12 in my cellar because I consider this to be the best beer I have ever had. Do I think it's overrated? No, I think it is underrated. I am an addict and proud of it. I do feel a little guilty since the monks don't approve, but i can't help myself. I have a source and I use it. I would like to try and brew a batch for kicks though. Any Westy fans out there?


60 bottles???:eek:
What's your source(general info, not looking for a name or anything) if you don't mind my asking? Not looking to mooch, just curious.

I don't have much worthy of trading you for some of those, but beeradvocate.com has an active trading forum where you could get some really great, hard to find beers, as trades for some of those Westy's. I have traded once, and feel overall you'd be safe swapping with someone who has a proven track record on the board. But if their your fav's, maybe you're not interested in swapping. :D Just FYI. I don't think their overrated either.
What else are you cellaring? Maybe post how they age etc. in my 'cellaring commercial beer' thread. I'd really like those that cellar to post/review to get that thread going and maybe encourage others to start saving beer.
 
landhoney said:
60 bottles???:eek:
What's your source(general info, not looking for a name or anything) if you don't mind my asking? Not looking to mooch, just curious.

I don't have much worthy of trading you for some of those, but beeradvocate.com has an active trading forum where you could get some really great, hard to find beers, as trades for some of those Westy's. I have traded once, and feel overall you'd be safe swapping with someone who has a proven track record on the board. But if their your fav's, maybe you're not interested in swapping. :D Just FYI. I don't think their overrated either.
What else are you cellaring? Maybe post how they age etc. in my 'cellaring commercial beer' thread. I'd really like those that cellar to post/review to get that thread going and maybe encourage others to start saving beer.

I have some Firestone 11 and Speedway Stout that I am aging right now too. When I say cellar, it's a bit of an overstatement. :) It's a corner of my garage where I keep some beer. Yes, BA trading is an exciting and addicting pursuit. Mostly good guys if you are careful. I have many mathces for my W12's and plan a new trade soon. Looking to try some Dark Lord. Just traded for some Kuenhen Raspberry Eisbock, which was fun. As far as aging the Westvleteren, I have a hard time doing it, but I am trying to drink it LIFO to see if I can get some to age, which is where these really shine. I have big plans for beer aging, and hope to get an official cellar going as soon as I am done with my Brutus 10 project. I'll check out your thread. If you think of something you want to trade, let me know. I have lots of them because I am afraid the source will dry up. He is in Belgium, of course.

KD
 
you lucky %%$&%*&%* I have one Westy in my frig and can't wait for a special occasion that I fear will never come.
 
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