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Old 09-26-2012, 12:36 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid View Post
barley as lightly kilned as possible? is there a name for that? i'm doing all grain btw
Yes, it's called pilsner malt which produces more DMS than any other malt.

Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid View Post
it doesn't surprise me that no one is considering the viability. they're all old timers here. they no doubt have tons of knowledge and wisdom. less so ideas
If you think that ignorance is a substitute for knowledge and wisdom, then I feel sorry for you.

In my opinion, those who have expressed reservations about your suggestion have considered the viability, and that is why they expressed reservations.

Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid;4439932i
might not be able to get 30 ibu reasonably on a 1 min boil, but i can on 3 min
I wouldn't be too sure about that. IBU calculators may indicate that you can, but they are just guesstimators based on assumptions that you are following commonly accepted practices, which you aren't.

Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid View Post
as for DMS, the document that i was linked to never described definitively how much there is or how much of a problem it is. So I don't see the problem in giving this a try
Just because one link doesn't give you the information that you think you need, doesn't mean that the information is not available.
Principle of Brewing Science by George Fix gives this information, and I suspect a Google search would also provide it.

If you are still set on following up on your idea, I suggest you do a google search on boiling wort. That will confirm all the reservations expressed in this thread, as well as introducing a whole bunch of other reasons why you should not try this.


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Old 09-26-2012, 03:04 AM   #42
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If you're interested in this idea, I'd definitely check out a Berliner Weisse. Mine is 70/30 pilsner/wheat, no boil. Not a single of the 12 score sheets I got from competitions, including NHC regional and final rounds mentioned DMS.

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Old 09-26-2012, 03:21 AM   #43
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The reason the HBTwiki and I would bet any BYO or other article on DMS don't give definitive answers on how much DMS/precursors to expect is that it is heavily dependent on not only the degree of kilning(pilsner vs. pale vs roasted) but also the entire malting process. The levels of precursors are going to vary maltster to maltster and possibly even batch to batch. The only way to say for sure how much DMS to expect would be to get a hold of the lab assay for the specific lot of grain you will be using. This probably isn't feasible on a batch scale as most homebrew supply shops probably don't request nor keep any analysis document that come with their grain. They also probably don't keep lots of grain separate so it would be hard if not impossible to guarantee that you are getting the grain you have data for if they did hold onto the documents.
You might be able to get this data if you order grain in bulk but I'm guessing you don't.
Another option is to use the almost assured presence of DMS as part of your goal. There are styles where DMS is a desirable flavor. German Lagers for one. Really dark stouts are able to cover up DMS with lots of roasted grains
Back to the issue of hop utilization you would be advised to make use of first wort hopping (http://www.brew365.com/technique_firstworthopping.php). But again you won't get the smooth bitterness that comes with a long boil. The flavor and aroma will be there.
You're going to have to go through the BJCP style guides and figure out what flavor profiles you like that change the weaknesses of this technique into strengths/goals.
This beer is going to be a low bitter beer with noticeable DMS character. You could go with a sweet stout, or a Munich Helles. There are others but I don't know what style of beer you like.
Personally if I were doing a 1 minute boil, I'd to a partial mash using pre-bittered liquid extract and first wort hopping so I cna take advantage of the 15-20 minutes it takes to get things up to a boil.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:31 PM   #44
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I'm laughing all the way through this thread. It reminded me of this gem:

Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, the 8-Minute Abs?
Ted: Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs. Yeah, the excercise video.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs.
Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted: I would go for the 7.
Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk.
Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs. Then you're in trouble, huh?
Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody's comin' up with 6. Who works out in 6 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.
Ted: That - good point.
Hitchhiker: 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Ted: Why?
Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're f*ckin' fired!

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Old 09-27-2012, 04:53 PM   #45
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with regards to DMS. I don't think it will be an issue. Pilsner malt has a lot of dms precursor but the boiling is what converts it to DMS. skip the boil, no dms (which is why people can do no boil berliner weisse). Grain is cheap so give it a try if you really want to. That said, if you are trying to save time, skip the mash and get some malt extract. If you want to save even more time, buy a wort in a bag or pre-hopped extract kit and I'm sure your results will be better. ...or save even more time and go to the store and buy commercially produced beer.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:24 PM   #46
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And if u want to save time gettin drunk just butt chug a beer .. It's a new thing to do ....
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:41 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by gbx View Post
...the boiling is what converts it to DMS.
...no. Boiling drives off DMS precursors via volatilizing, which is also one of the reasons why you leave the lid off the brew kettle while boiling.

Precursors are created between 140F-180F...i.e., mashing temps.
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:01 PM   #48
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From my understanding, it takes 20 min to sterylize everything in your kettle. So I wouldnt even consider anything less than 20 min, 30 to be safe.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:31 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid
1 min boil brew?

I'm temped to try this.

How much water would I need for 10lbs of grain at 5.25 gal after a 1 min boil? 5.6 gal?
That's probably a little low, but close. About a half gallon. I've done one minute boils for both a Berliner Weisse and Lambic. No need to boil if your not adding hop bitterness. Precursors for DMS don't for until you start boiling.
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:38 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Domes View Post
No need to boil if your not adding hop bitterness. Precursors for DMS don't for until you start boiling.
And as already mentioned there are ways to add hop bitterness.

I'd probably pre boil and pre hop the water, get it to mash temps and add grain.

I'm going to try a 1 gallon batch, standard ale. I might even rinse the grains prior to mashing. Maybe even rinse them with starsan.

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