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Old 09-19-2012, 06:06 PM   #41
GilaMinumBeer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdboy View Post
16mg per gallon of water for typical water treatment concentrations. The half-life for the reaction is about 4 minutes, so what I do is add the vitamin c as I start filling up the pot and heating it for dough-in. By the time I get to my strike temp it's usually been long enough for the reaction to have removed the bulk of the chlorine/chloramine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCOLA View Post
Is that correct? That's .08 gram per 5 gallons. That is a tiny amount.
I've read that Ascorbic Acid will only temporarily neutralize chloramines and that the neutralizing bonds break down within a day. Maybe AJ can shed some light.

 
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:09 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCOLA View Post
Is that correct? That's .08 gram per 5 gallons. That is a tiny amount.
Yes, it is a tiny amount.

I got the 16mg/gallon figure from the guy who came to speak about water chemistry for our BJCP prep class. Doing some further research on the subject, I found this quote in a thread on another forum:

"Ascorbic acid a USEPA approved dechlorinating agent is commonly used for chloramine removal in kidney dialysis treatment applications." "..an ascorbic acid concentration of 1.7 mg/l...will remove a chloramine residual of approximately 3 mg/l."


3mg/l is the maximum recommended concentration of chloramine in drinking water, and typical concentrations are between .2 and 2mg/l.


My local water is treated with chlorine, which is at around 1.2mg/l.

 
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GilaMinumBeer View Post
I've read that Ascorbic Acid will only temporarily neutralize chloramines and that the neutralizing bonds break down within a day. Maybe AJ can shed some light.
Afraid I can't. I do recall reading somewhere that ascorbic acid isn't a good choice for keeping beer in a reduced state because the oxidized ascorbic acid eventually turns around and oxidizes some reductone in the beer and I suppose that could happen when the oxidized ascorbic acid reaches the mash tun but if the amount quoted is correct it can't do much damage. Anyway, I am not nearly certain on this.

 
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:38 PM   #44
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Something I received when I asked the EHS chemist from our local MUD about removing chloramines. She also said that metabisulfate aka Campden tablets is an effective way to remove chloramines quickly from our water. I thanked her and told her I'd bring her some (chloramine free) beer for her time....

http://www.wqa.org/pdf/techbulletins/TB-Chloramine.pdf
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:40 AM   #45
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1/4 tablet per 5 gal takes care of up to 3 mg/L

 
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:09 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
1/4 tablet per 5 gal takes care of up to 3 mg/L
AJ, does that mean if the Chlorine/Chloramine concentration is say 1mg/L, then that 1/4 of a tablet would actually be sufficient for 15 gallons? (that it scales linearly? 2mg/L = 10 gallons, etc)


Also, I think you mentioned that the tablets you were talking about were 700mg/tablet. The ones from the LHBS are 550 mg/tablet, so thats 20% less.


I'd like to use as small a dose as possible, because it does add some salts. At the very least, I want to account for them, if its not a trivial amount.

 
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:37 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcLight View Post
iambeer,

Don't listen to Yooper or trust that old paper by AJ Delange.

Go ahead and boil for 20 minutes, you will be fine. All the Chloramine will be gone.
Thats what I do and my beer tastes good.




Keep in mind that no one here knows what they are talking about, they just like to talk. You wont learn anything by reading articles here. Has anyone here won anything, or been brewing for more than a year?

Trust your city government, their purpose is to take care of their citizens.

>>That is the dated document from the 90's.... In contrast, multiple .gov and city water websites are saying that it takes 5 minutes to remove half of chloramine (and 5 minutes for another 50% reduction, etc) or approximately 20 minutes to remove most of chloramines. I don't understand why you guys can't accept that.

I agree with you. The Chloramine will be long gone, before the end of your 60 minute boil.
Most cities run excellent breweries. The city of Stone in California makes great IPAs. The city of Sierra Nevada on California also makes good beer.

1. Make sure you never squeeze your grain bag if you steep your grain, else you will get Tannins in your beer.

2. Make sure you transfer your beer to a secondary after 5 days. Leaving your beer on that dead yeast cake will cause autolysis and ruin your beer.

3. Don't use Aluminum pots, else you will get Alzheimers.

4. Don't let your beer get stale, bottle it after a week in the secondary (in clear bottles, so sunlight can kill any foreign yeast).
Give it a week to carbonate and start drinking it.

5. This is all true, no sarcasm at all.
Don't forget:

6. Don't use a Rubbermaid cooler for mashing since you'll likely leach out nasty plastic additives into your beer.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:15 AM   #48
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Thought I'd weigh in on this since I have to remove Chloramines for my Saltwater fishtanks. The best method to bring it down that I've used is to use a RO machine with a .5 micron Carbon prefilter with a siliabuster DI cartridge made by Spectrapure. It's a bigger expense at a few hundred bucks but it should be able to remove almost all chloramine out of normal city treated tap water. If you plan to invest in RO/DI you should get the higher end filters since they're worth the money. Lots of talk about chloramines on a lot of different aquarium websites that have quite a few knowledgeable people in the water treatment industry.

"Low end systems rely on multiple carbons as they use low quality, low capacity carbon since it costs less and improves their profit margin. Often granular products are completely exhausted in as little as 300 total gallons, thats 60 good RO/DI gallons and 240 waste gallons at the normal 4:1 waste ratio. Compare that to a single 0.5 micron 20,000 gallon carbon block at 4,000 good and 16,000 waste gallons. Big difference."

I use water from my RO/DI to make all my beer in addition to synthetic saltwater and I've never noticed any off flavors in my beer. It's also very easy to hit Mash PH due to the water being, in most respects, distilled.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:41 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcLight View Post
AJ, does that mean if the Chlorine/Chloramine concentration is say 1mg/L, then that 1/4 of a tablet would actually be sufficient for 15 gallons? (that it scales linearly? 2mg/L = 10 gallons, etc)
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcLight View Post
Also, I think you mentioned that the tablets you were talking about were 700mg/tablet. The ones from the LHBS are 550 mg/tablet, so thats 20% less.
They do vary in weight and so an adjustment would need to be made for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcLight View Post
I'd like to use as small a dose as possible, because it does add some salts. At the very least, I want to account for them, if its not a trivial amount.
The amounts of salts added are very small and one of them, ammonium,is a yeast nutrient.

You can get the paper mentioned extensively earlier in this thread at hbd.org in the Preserve at the mirror of my website. There are tables in there that show how much of what is produced for each mg/L chlorine or chloramine destroyed.

I tell people to crush a tablet, dissolve it (to the extent you can) in some warm water and add that a bit at a time to the brew water. When you can't smell chlorine any more, when the smell of sulfur dioxide begins to become prevalent, you have titrated the chloramine i.e. you have used no more than you actually need.

 
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:16 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCOLA View Post
For the life of me, I can't understand people's avoidance of using campden. I see all kinds of bad info on this site about how to get rid of chlorine/chloramine when it can be eliminated with a 1/4 tab per 5 gals of water. I use it in every batch.

I just went and looked at the price tag on my campden tablets. It was $1.90 for 50 tabs.

I think $.08 per batch is pretty damned good insurance against band-aid beer.
Hell, I moved from a place with chloramine to a place with chlorine. I still take a knife and scrape a tablet once or twice just to get a tiny amount of sodium metabisulfate in there. Take THAT, chlorine!

 
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