Keeving: chapeau brun at the bottom? - Home Brew Forums
Register Now For Free!

Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > Keeving: chapeau brun at the bottom?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-17-2012, 09:12 PM   #1
sideshow_ben
Recipes 
 
May 2010
Baltimore
Posts: 120


Trying my first keeve. I added PME and CaCl to the cider and it's clarified really nicely with a big thick layer in the bottom the next day. I'm curious how quickly the calcium and pectic enzyme react, and whether I could rack off this to ferment, or whether the chemical process takes much longer and/or there is a huge benefit to waiting for it to rise.

-ben
Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3631277301.jpg
Views:	315
Size:	26.6 KB
ID:	76069  

 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 02:00 AM   #2
LeBreton
Recipes 
 
Nov 2011
Finger Lakes, NY
Posts: 1,133
Liked 101 Times on 89 Posts


Judging by the picture I don't think you have a successful keeve. First off, the juice is still cloudy. When keeving, what is left behind is perfectly clear. I also don't see a chapeau. While it does sometimes collect at the bottom of the carboy, it still looks like a pectic gel often referred to as a 'brain in a jar'. What you have looks like normal sedimentation to me.
__________________
In all the states no door stands wider,
To ask you in to drink hard cider

 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 02:13 AM   #3
sideshow_ben
Recipes 
 
May 2010
Baltimore
Posts: 120

Thanks!! So my last question (I hope) is that I gave a couple minutes of stirring when I added the calcium salt but have left it alone since. Should I mix up the cider every day or two until I see a gel, or just leave it alone? It wasn't clear to me if the gel forms instantly or not...

 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 02:34 AM   #4
LeBreton
Recipes 
 
Nov 2011
Finger Lakes, NY
Posts: 1,133
Liked 101 Times on 89 Posts


Leave it alone. Stirring will just break up any clumps should they begin to form. My successful keeves (all 2 of them) and almost-keeves (2 more batches, chapeau formed and then dissolved) probably took an average of 24-60 hrs to develop the chapeau if I remember correctly.
__________________
In all the states no door stands wider,
To ask you in to drink hard cider

 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 06:17 PM   #5
sideshow_ben
Recipes 
 
May 2010
Baltimore
Posts: 120

Well it's been 6 days at 50F and no sign of any gel in the carboy (no fermentation action either) so I guess this one failed...

 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 02:32 AM   #6
LeBreton
Recipes 
 
Nov 2011
Finger Lakes, NY
Posts: 1,133
Liked 101 Times on 89 Posts


Keeving is incredibly difficult to reproduce without having control of the grinding process. CaCL and PME are meant to overcome that lack of control, but sometimes the gap is too large. Don't be discouraged, try again with a new strategy to increase your chances. for example, when possible, try to collect the dregs of a cider-mills pressing. This late juice should have a much higher pectin concentration.

That's how I got this cherry juice keeve I've got going now. Was gonna throw it out but on a whim decided to add some already fermenting apple juice to the sludge of about 200 gallons of cherry to see what would happen.
Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-09-22 15.11.23.jpg
Views:	281
Size:	77.4 KB
ID:	76751   Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-09-22 15.11.29.jpg
Views:	286
Size:	54.0 KB
ID:	76752  
__________________
In all the states no door stands wider,
To ask you in to drink hard cider

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools



Forum Jump