Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > EHERMS water testing
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-16-2012, 02:01 PM   #1
WroxBrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: West Roxbury, MA
Posts: 105
Liked 16 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default EHERMS water testing

So I've been running water tests on my 20 gal stout tank rig getting ready for it's maiden brew, and the MLT is running a consistant 6 degrees lower then the HLT. I figured there might be some heat loss through the hoses and pumps, but this seems like a fair amount. I'd love to get some input from anyone if this is reasonable or not. One thing I haven't done is run a hose to the top of the water in the MLT, so it's just trickling down the side of the tank. I plan to fix this today and test again.


WroxBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 05:24 PM   #2
dburgette
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 213
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WroxBrew
So I've been running water tests on my 20 gal stout tank rig getting ready for it's maiden brew, and the MLT is running a consistant 6 degrees lower then the HLT. I figured there might be some heat loss through the hoses and pumps, but this seems like a fair amount. I'd love to get some input from anyone if this is reasonable or not. One thing I haven't done is run a hose to the top of the water in the MLT, so it's just trickling down the side of the tank. I plan to fix this today and test again.
My temp in the HLT vs mlt is always about a half degree different. Not 6 though.

I'm assuming everything is calibrated?


dburgette is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 04:07 AM   #3
mateomtb
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pine, Co
Posts: 123
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

I can't offer tons of experience as I just completed my 2nd brew today, but I'm fresh from chasing this myself. I moved my HLT temp probe to my herms coil exit which is controls my HLT elements and the MLT is running exactly 3 degrees lower (with grain). There is about 3 feet of hose from the herms exit and where it dumps back in the top of my MLT. At the advice of a lot on here the probe at the HLT exit was key for me getting it consistent.

With the grain it can take a looong time for that MLT temp to react so whatever you can do to land that mash temp where you want it after you dough in the easier it is to dial in.
mateomtb is offline
WroxBrew Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 11:09 AM   #4
WroxBrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: West Roxbury, MA
Posts: 105
Liked 16 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

So I shortened up my hoses between the pumps and kettles. I had intentionally left them a bit longer then needed as I am still debating pump placement. I also added a drip tube down the side of the MLT and I have managed to get the difference between them to two degrees F. I'm using rtd's in welded thermowells on the tanks, so I cannot easily move the sensor to the hlt exit.The maiden brew day will be Friday, so I'll have to keep this in mind.

Mateomb. I know our systems are probably different, but I was wondering what type of temp difference you saw going from just water to a real mash. Transfering 10 gallons to mlt for mash in, I loose 8-10 degrees. I figure it will be worse when I add grain into the equation. Any insight would be appreciated. I hope your enjoying brewing on your new rig.
WroxBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 08:07 PM   #5
JRems
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Mahopac, NY
Posts: 2,230
Liked 60 Times on 52 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Are you stirring or recirculating the mlt water? There is statification of temperature without mixing and could be a large difference from top to bottom. Make sure that is not creating an issue.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
Simcoe smells like 10 cats pissing on a pine tree. It's awesome.
JRems is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 09:11 PM   #6
WroxBrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: West Roxbury, MA
Posts: 105
Liked 16 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRems View Post
Are you stirring or recirculating the mlt water? There is statification of temperature without mixing and could be a large difference from top to bottom. Make sure that is not creating an issue.
I am using 2 pumps. recirculation of both the HLT and MLT. Im getting consistant readings from the rtd-pids and a thermometer that I can take readings from throughout both kettles. Stratification doesn't seem to be an issue, just a difference between the kettles. I plan to only stir at mash-in, but I haven't got there yet.
WroxBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 09:31 PM   #7
mateomtb
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pine, Co
Posts: 123
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WroxBrew View Post
Mateomb. I know our systems are probably different, but I was wondering what type of temp difference you saw going from just water to a real mash. Transfering 10 gallons to mlt for mash in, I loose 8-10 degrees. I figure it will be worse when I add grain into the equation. Any insight would be appreciated. I hope your enjoying brewing on your new rig.
I am having a blast and you will too!
This is what I do, forgive me for talking this out so much, I'm still figuring it out. In my system I can have my BK and HLT going at same time, I'm doing 10 gallon batches in keggles. So with that in mind I recirculate my HLT water through the coil(my probe is on the exit of coil) and back into itself (about 13 gallons) and heat it to 3 degrees above my desired mash temp. At the same time I have my strike water heating in the BK (for a 10 gallon batch) and bring it to 20 degrees above desired mash to account for loss from hoses, grain and cold MLT. If my MLT is preheated it's about 15 degrees over mash temp. So when I transfer my strike water over and dough in I just move my hose from the HLT to the MLT out and start recirculating through the coil and into the top of the MLT and the temp stays right on target for the duration (at least for my last brew!). At the end of my mash I have a process that ramps up the temp to mash out which takes about 5 minutes to come up to temp, i'm running full open at this point. This then leaves me with tons of water in the HLT at temp for my sparg as well.

Hope this helps, I think it just takes a few brews to get everything dialed in.

Just read your other post. From all the reading I've done on these forums, I don't think you need to stress about the difference as long is it's consistent.
mateomtb is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 03:51 AM   #8
WroxBrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: West Roxbury, MA
Posts: 105
Liked 16 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mateomtb View Post
I am having a blast and you will too!
This is what I do, forgive me for talking this out so much, I'm still figuring it out. In my system I can have my BK and HLT going at same time, I'm doing 10 gallon batches in keggles. So with that in mind I recirculate my HLT water through the coil(my probe is on the exit of coil) and back into itself (about 13 gallons) and heat it to 3 degrees above my desired mash temp. At the same time I have my strike water heating in the BK (for a 10 gallon batch) and bring it to 20 degrees above desired mash to account for loss from hoses, grain and cold MLT. If my MLT is preheated it's about 15 degrees over mash temp. So when I transfer my strike water over and dough in I just move my hose from the HLT to the MLT out and start recirculating through the coil and into the top of the MLT and the temp stays right on target for the duration (at least for my last brew!). At the end of my mash I have a process that ramps up the temp to mash out which takes about 5 minutes to come up to temp, i'm running full open at this point. This then leaves me with tons of water in the HLT at temp for my sparg as well.

Hope this helps, I think it just takes a few brews to get everything dialed in.

Just read your other post. From all the reading I've done on these forums, I don't think you need to stress about the difference as long is it's consistent.
Funny, but I'm going about it the same way. I can have both my heaters going at the same time also, and plan to use my boil kettle for dough in and mash out while using the HLT for recirculation and sparging. I can live with the 2 degree offset, but 6 had me concerned that something wasn't quite right.


WroxBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eherms hlt how to? bagpiperjosh Electric Brewing 4 07-02-2013 03:29 PM
need help wiring eherms rig Lost Electric Brewing 2 06-28-2013 10:00 PM
My BCS-460 eHERMS build jbbeer Electric Brewing 13 01-29-2013 04:26 AM
LiquidFlame's eHERMS Build -need help LiquidFlame Electric Brewing 38 10-20-2012 04:02 PM
My eHERMS build Jdaught Electric Brewing 2 08-12-2012 03:24 AM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS