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Old 02-19-2013, 02:36 AM   #21
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Also, worth noting that this was the first time I've used Pacman. I did not make a yeast starter, but had airlock activity in about five hours after pitching. The smack pack package was so swollen at pitching that I was nervous of an explosion when cutting it open!
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:44 AM   #22
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Tasting tonight alongside a Chainbreaker.

Appearance - the clone is a couple degrees darker than the original, a little more amber than the straw colored Chainbreaker. It also lacks the full Haines of the original. Both poured about 1.5 finger head of nice fine foam with good retention.
Smell - both have nice citrus aromas and a sort of green grassiness though the Chainbreaker is more pronounced. It also has a slightly spicier note, probably from the yeast. The coriander comes through more clearly in the Chainbreaker but is present in both.
Taste - both taste great but there is substantial difference. Hops in the clone are on the forefront in flavor as well as bitterness. The malt character is more nuanced in the original probably from use of unmalted wheat and a step mash. The clone is more citrusy with only a bit of the citra tropical flavors and coriander evident.
Mouthfeel - the Chainbreaker wins this one with a nice light effervescence that rolls across my palate before finishing crisp. My clone, while pleasant, is thicker and finishes a bit warmer and sweeter. Odd from what I've read about Pacman being a really clean and efficient yeast.

Overall both are fine beers but the clone needs some tweaking. The hops will likely mellow with time and bring out more of the malt character, but at this point they are a bit of a distraction. Bravo as the bittering would probably help as well. Also would either try the trappist yeast recommended in the original post or propagate yeast from a bottle of chainbreaker. To get the srm closer I suppose scaling back on the flaked wheat and/or might help along with bumping up ratio of pilsner malt.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:07 AM   #23
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5 ml of lactic acid is an ass and a half load. For just adjusting the mash ph, I normally use about 1.5ml for about 32L of water. Are you tossing it in during mash or adding it in just before the boil?
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxowam View Post
Brewed this today using the stepped mash and lactic acid but with Coff's grain and hops profile and pitched onto part of a WLP400 cake. Ended up with a lot higher efficiency than I expected, putting me at 1.070 (switched to a milling my grain twice). Everything smells great and wort tasted delicious, so I can't wait to try the final product. Thanks for the recipe.
Have you tried the finished product yet? Will be interested to hear what you think of the taste having used the full 5 ml lactic acid. I'm brewing this week (extract) and am planning to pass on the acid since people here generally seem to think it sounds like a lot of acid and I don't think of this as a "sour" beer. But I guess that's something that could be added on the back end to taste anyway?

Also, how many volumes of carbonation did people use on this one? Seems like it could go higher (say 2.5-3) as a wheat beer, or lower (2-2.5) as an IPA. Haven't had the original in a while though and don't remember how that was carbed.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:26 AM   #25
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The final product is great and I didn't really notice any sourness. I think the citrus flavors from all the hops complements the acid, but I could be crazy. I added the acid when I started the boil, just FYI.
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:48 AM   #26
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Just to supplement, here's the conversion to extract from the same Zymergy recipe the OP used (haven't tried this myself yet so can't vouch for how well it turns out):

Substitute 5.25 lb pale malt extract syrup for the pils malt and 2.5 lb wheat malt extract syrup for the malted and unmalted wheat. Be sure to dissolve extracts completely before proceeding with the boil.

However, I think the extract recipe from Zymergy fails to take into account that wheat LME is not 100% wheat (for instance, Briess Wheat LME is 65/35 wheat/barley). Using the standard formula of LME = Whole Grain * .75, and assuming a 65/35 wheat/barley ratio in the wheat LME, I come up with the following:
  • To match the all-grain recipe's wheat/barley ratio, I want 2.8 lb pure wheat extract in my wort (2.25 lb Wheat Malt + 1.5 lb Flaked Wheat * .75 conversion factor) + 4.9 lb pure barley extract (6.5 lb 2 Row * .75 conversion factor)
  • I should therefore use 4.3 lb of Wheat LME, which should contain 2.8 lb wheat (4.3 lb * .65) and 1.5 lb barley (4.65 * .35).
  • I should also use 3.4 lb of Pilsner LME to get my total barley quantity up to 4.9 lb (this is added to the 1.5 lb barley content in the Wheat LME).

Also, does anyone have advice on if/when to add the 5 ml lactic acid to an extract brew? I don't know if it's supposed to change the water chemistry for all grain brewers in some way that wouldn't be necessary for extract brewers, or if it is adding a desired sour flavor and should still be included in an extract version (in the boil, during fermentation, or even at bottling?)
I made the extract version as laid out in my post above but omitted the lactic acid, kegged and carbed to 2.5 vols. It was enjoyable - very little aroma and significant hop bitterness, with some grapefruit. Hard to make out the orange and coriander. Reminded me of the very first beer I brewed, a clone of 3 Floyds Gumballhead. So overall a tasty beer but not quite what I'd expected.

However it didn't compare well to the commercial brew. Color was much darker (not surprising given past experience with wheat extract, seems impossible to match the color of a commercial wheat beer). The commercial brew had significant aroma and more of a citrus "bite", as well as higher carbonation. Overall I preferred the commercial version.

Did a bit of fiddling after the first few days (probably down to 4 gallons by this point) -- upped carbonation to 3 vols, added 3.75 mls lactic acid, and dry hopped with 1 oz Citra (in a hop bag, will just leave in the keg until it is kicked). The lactic acid and carbonation bring it much closer to the commercial brew. I would do 4 mls / 5 gallons next time. The dry hops give a nice aroma and I'm glad I added them, though it definitely makes mine hoppier than the commercial version. I would probably do .5 oz dry hops next time.
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Old 05-06-2013, 05:32 PM   #27
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Coff is that a 5 gallon batch recipe?
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Coff is that a 5 gallon batch recipe?
Its an 11 gallon batch.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:28 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by m1ke View Post
I found this recipe in Zymurgy Volume 35 posted by Brian Faivre of Deschutes Brewery.

I am a fan of Chainbreaker, and this clone turned out awesome.

Ingredients:
------------
6 lbs 8.0 oz, Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs 4.0 oz, Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs 8.0 oz, Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)

5.00 ml, Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 mins)
4.9 oz, Corn Sugar (Dextrose) [Boil for30 min]
0.12 oz, Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.34 oz, Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins)

1.00 oz, Bravo (Pellets) [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz, Citra (Pellets) [12.00 %] - knockout
1.00 oz, Centennial (Pellets) [10.00 %] - knockout
0.50 oz, Cascade (Pellets) [5.50 %] - knockout
0.9 pkg, Wyeast Labs #3787 Yeast, Trappist High Gravity

Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.9 oz
----------------------------
Step 1) 125.0 F, 15 min
Step 2) 145.0 F, 15 min
Step 3) 163.0 F, 20 min
Mash Out 172.0 F, 10 min

Ferment at 66 F for two days, then allow temperature to rise to 74 F until fermentation is complete. I let mine sit at 70 for one week, and then back to 66 F for the remainder of fermentation.

I dropped mine to 42 F for two days before kegging.
Forgive me, I'm a newbie to step mash. I have a cooler MT and HLT, how would I do a multi-step mash in that system?
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:50 PM   #30
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Hi Kevin -

The easiest way is to do it with your system is to initially use a pretty thick mash (1 gallon/pound of grain) and add boiling water to move up in the mashes. There are online calculators and brewing software than can help with volumes needed. Here is a simple one:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/

This can result in a thin mash at the end. I've taken to doing just two steps if possible. Understanding what each step accomplishes is another thing altogether and there are a lot of good threads on the subject on this forum. Hope that helps!
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