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Old 08-29-2012, 02:49 PM   #1
KingBrianI's Avatar
May 2008
Durham, NC
Posts: 3,518
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Oh, man. Is it me or are dog breeders nuts? Let me tell you a quick story of how some stuff just went down and you tell me if I'm overreacting or if my response was justified. My wife is upset at how I handled the situation, but there's only so much abuse a man can take before he says enough.

Here's a little background. We bought a doberman from a reputedly very good breeder back around May. We had been in contact with her and her partner for at least a year prior to this waiting for a puppy to come available. From the conversations and a visit to their house during the waiting time, we knew they were eccentric but were willing to deal with it because we thought their dogs were very good. Every time we spoke though, they would put my wife and I down for any ideas we had or questions we asked that wasn't 100% in line with their way of doing something. They advocate things like not vaccinating because they're worried about the effects it could have on the dog and they recommended supplementing the puppies with calcium (which is completely opposite of everything I've read in regards to puppy feeding) among other things. The subject that caused the recent problems was based on their recommended feeding plan. They feed what I consider a low quality food (Bil-Jac Adult Select) and supplement it with a ground raw meat product marketed for pet consumption. We slowly switched over to a high quality kibble after bringing the puppy home, but continued feeding the raw supplement for a few months. We quit giving the raw for a couple of reasons. First, there is a lot written about not mixing kibble with raw feeding. Apparently, the enzymes needed to break them down are different and mixing them can cause stomach issues and improper digestion. Secondly, high quality kibble is formulated to provide complete nutrition to a dog. By supplementing with the raw, which means he wouldn't be eating as much kibble, I felt it could cause the dog to not get enough of some particular nutrients. Below is a recent email conversation between the breeder and myself.

Email from me to breeder:

Hey Guys,

It's Brian. We've been meaning to send you some pics of Brolly for a while so I took a couple today to let you see what a handsome boy he is becoming. The pictures were taken between postings so you could see how his ears are coming and perhaps comment on any changes we need to make. He's been a great companion and is making a lot of progress in training. Everyone comments on how beautiful he is but we get lots of questions about those funny things on his head. Here are the pictures. Please let me know if you have any recommendations on his ears.


Response from breeder:


How much are you feeding him with each meal ? and are you feeding him raw meat, the BlueRidge beef that we told you to get , , , He needs that with each meal and you can see his ribs so tell me how much you are feeding him ?????

Best and the ears look very good., just keep taping them for another month at least !!!

<name removed>

My response:

Hi <name removed>,

We were giving 2 cups of food twice a day, but have noticed like you that he is starting to get skinny so are upping it to 3 cups twice a day. He's 60-65 lbs right now and the vet has been happy with his body condition at every visit. We stopped supplementing with the Blue Ridge beef a couple of months ago and he is on a strictly kibble diet with the addition of the supplements you recommended. The food we are using is Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lover's Soul for Large Breed Puppies.

We would love to see a picture of his sister if you have one!



Breeder's response 1:

May I ask you WHY you have changed his diet from what I asked you to feed, , , , , first he needs raw meat and why did you stop the BilJac????? He is thin and at his age should never eat 6 cups of food a day for his age. !!!!!!!!! Look at the Protein % of the food he is eating and tell me what it is and what the first 4 ingredients are in this food. I would bet big money that the food he is eating has 27 or 29% protein in it !!!
Very bad !

I am very disappointed that you are not listening to us.. Please answer my questions
<name removed>

Breeder's response 2 (before I could respond to the first response):


I want you to know that this food is made by Diamond dog food co. and this company has had several recalls on their foods with substances found in the food and has made some dogs very very sick. and dead and put them into renal failure. The Vets get NO training with nutrition so they know nothing about it except what they are being paid to sell and tell you to use. I am very disapointed in you and Erin and if your dogs can save him in time !! gets really sick don't call me ! If I can see ribs in a email picture I know he will have ribs sticking out that I can feel in person and that is NOT good . He did NOT look like this when he left our house.
giving him more amount of food does not solve the problem it messes up his immune system. He is not using this crapy food well at all and that is why he looks like he does. I wish you good luck and if your Vet or whoever told you to use this food is an idiot !! Feeding him that much food can put him into bloat which will give you a dead dog and a huge Vet bill !! I am sorry that you do not trust us enough to listen to us !! That is why I spend so much time talking with everyone when they come.
I made a mistake selling you one of my beautiful dogs and forgive me for being so harsh and I did not judge you both very well. I will add into my contract from hence forth that if the dog food that I ask you to feed is not done I have the legal right to come get my dog back !! Good luck

<name removed>

That's when my patience ended. The following was my response. I feel like it was justified but let me know from your outside perspectives whether you think it was an overreaction:

<name removed>,

I cannot recall one conversation between us that you have not attacked or criticized me for something. I have two suggestions for you. First, don't write emails when you're off your meds. Have Tammy hide the keyboard if you need to. Secondly, if you do insist on throwing these tantrums via email, at least proof read them before you send them. Half of what you wrote is incomprehensible.

Now, on to the subject of dog food. Yes, I am aware that Diamond had a couple recalls a few months ago. We have been monitoring the batches and none of them were effected.

My vet did not choose the dog food, I did. If that makes me an idiot, then those who choose Biljac must be complete morons. You asked what the first 4 ingredients of this "crappy" food were. Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, turkey meal. If you feel like the first 4 ingredients of a food are important, I'm surprised you like Biljac so much. It's first 4 ingredients are chicken, chicken by-products, corn meal, chicken by-product meal. You also mentioned that if the food we were feeding had 27 or 29% protein, that it was "very bad". The food we are feeding does have 27% protein, which is exactly what Biljac Adult Select contains.

You stated that you were sorry we didn't trust you enough to listen to you. When you have these hyperbolic, end-of-the world fits, it makes it hard to trust what you are saying. If you would like to have a reasonable, sane conversation, please respond, but I doubt it is within your abilities. If people who are capable of doing their own research and making thier own informed decisions without blindly following the ravings of a seemingly unstable lunatic aren't who you want to buy your puppies, I feel sorry for the dogs.

Meanwhile, Brolly is happy and healthy and we are having a great time with him.
I'm too lazy and have too many beers going to keep updating this!

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Old 08-29-2012, 03:15 PM   #2
AMonkey's Avatar
Aug 2012
Elgin, ND
Posts: 1,447
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HAHA! I love your response, but it was a little harsh. I am sure that is the only thing they will listen to. I would love to see if he reponds to your last email. We got our last dog for free from a friend, shepard/lab cross. I didn't want to deal with a breeder for the same issues you are having. It seems some never let go of the dog and that the way they do things is the only right way. I haven't heard good things about mixing dry and raw food either, so I agree on that point. Hopefully you don't have to deal with him again.

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Old 08-29-2012, 03:22 PM   #3
H-ost's Avatar
Jul 2011
Bellevue, WA
Posts: 1,746
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Dang, they do seem a bit psycho and, about the food, you seem to have done your own research which is great. Aside from a few personal attacks, which is understandable from how they treated you, I feel like you made a valid argument. Besides, they started it.

I'm curious to what they said next hah.
"Wisdom isn't "thinking hard". It's experience." - PassedPawn

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Old 08-29-2012, 03:23 PM   #4
Aug 2012
Liverpool, NY
Posts: 84
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

they are nuts, not for the emails, but for docking the tail and cropping the ears on that poor dog, the only reason the tail was ever docked on dogs was when they were working dogs, so guard dogs woudlnt play with their tail and dogs who pulled wagons wouldnt always run over their tail with the wheels. and the ears with because people thought if their ear flaps were gone they would hear better, docking and cropping is illegal most everywhere now and considered cruel, its a shame its still legal in the US, and dobermans are beautiful dogs when they are complete looking. also whats up with your dogs ears, even though they are cropped, it looks like whoever did it, did a horrible job, either that or they arent healed correctly yet.

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Old 08-29-2012, 04:25 PM   #5
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SharonaZamboni's Avatar
Mar 2012
Palmer, MA
Posts: 10,122
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I used to look at a dog forum, and some of the breeders insist on particular foods. They even write it into the buying contract that the dog must be fed that food.
Brolly is a handsome guy!

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Old 08-29-2012, 04:33 PM   #6
Old and OK is good enuff
WildGingerBrewing's Avatar
Mar 2010
McKinney, TX
Posts: 16,965
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This is awesome! Please post a response if you get one. My e-mail would have been slightly less nice than yours and somewhere would have contained the phrase, "It's my dog, I paid for it, F**K off!" But that's just me.
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:39 PM   #7
Ale's What Cures You!
Yooper's Avatar
Jun 2006
UP of Michigan, Winter Texan
Posts: 70,000
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Nice looking dog- except for the ears.

You know, my vet is my vet because she takes great care of my dog and I trust HER to give me nutritional advice for him and his weight. I also do my own research and give a good quality food to him but my vet knows which food it is and ok'd it.

While I can understand that they feel strongly about the food, WTF does that have to do with the dog's EARS? Yes, he's thin. That's between you and your vet.
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006

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Old 08-29-2012, 05:07 PM   #8
BrewerinBR's Avatar
Feb 2011
Big Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 1,360
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If those breeders are AKC and registered please report them to the AKC they need to loose their registration.
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:55 AM   #9
Jun 2012
Grand Prairie, Texas
Posts: 3


Reason: under another member's ID...will re-post under mine! Sorry!

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Old 08-30-2012, 10:58 AM   #10
Bedlam's Avatar
Dec 2006
East Tennessee
Posts: 1,021
Liked 54 Times on 37 Posts

He's quite the handsome lad!

I've run across my share of crazy dog people. It boils down to this: He's a DOG! If you fed him Soylent Green and ground possum, he'd STILL be FINE! Break all contact with these control freaks and enjoy your dog. Dog ownership should be a joy, not a chore.

Your reply was fine. I could see a couple of sentences where you could have curbed it a little, but certainly not an overreaction to the attack on your doggie parenthood.

I also agree with the poster who suggested contacting the AKC. They don't deserve to have any certification.
Jill Mc

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