Dual stage Love Controller - Can you use output 1 for heat and output 2 for cooling? - Home Brew Forums

 Home Brew Forums > Dual stage Love Controller - Can you use output 1 for heat and output 2 for cooling?

08-24-2012, 07:51 PM   #1
CidahMastah

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Nov 2010
, New York
Posts: 4,242
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I just bought and wired up a Love TSS2 with one probe.

The over all goal is to simply control the desired temp with heat and cooling. However I use a 1875watt hair dryer as my heater. Since the wattage demands are higher for this than my college refridge guts, I would like to use the 16amp output 1 for heating and the 8 amp output 2 for cooling. However all the instructions on how to program seem to use output 1 for cooling.

If you have done this I would much appreciate your providing me with details on how to do this. I tried some of the programming instructions I read and the elements both seem to be firing:

Values set are (goal is to cool to 66F in this example w/in 1.5 degrees heat if set value = 64F w/in .1 degree):

(I bought the controller used so I listed all the values)

Seem to be the most important

SP2 = 66 (R2 = 1.5) [if temp goes above 67.5 it triggers refridge until 66F]
SP1 = 64 (R1= .1) [if temp goes below 64 w/in .1, trigger hair dryer]
A1 = 88
A3 = 40
C2 = INV
P5 = 1
RO = Dep

Other values
H5 = 0
R3 = 1.0
R4 = 99.9
R5 = 99.9
R6 = 99.9
R7 = 99.9
R8 = on 1
A0 = .1
A2 = 92.7
A4 = 99.9
A5 = 18
A6 = AHL
A7 = AHL
Co = 5
C1 = dir
C3 = oPn
C4 = oPn
P0 = F
P1 = -1 (calibration on probe)
P2 = 0
P3 = Yes
P4 = Sd1
P5 = 1
H0 = 0
H1 = No
H2 = dir
H3 = dir
H4 = 0
H5 = 0
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08-24-2012, 08:37 PM   #2
slarkin712

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Sep 2011
St. Louis, MO
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The parameters c1 and c2 determine whether the relay is open or closed when above or below the set point. There's a manual here:
http://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/E_90_TSS2_Low.pdf
If you choose "dir" then that is for cooling, i.e. the power is on for that relay if the temp is above the set point + the "r" differential. If you choose "inv" then that is used for heating, i.e. the power will be on for that relay if the temp is below the set point - the "r" differential. Look at the example plots in the pdf file to help you understand how it works. Also, set r0 to "ind" so that the second relay runs independent of the first.

08-24-2012, 08:43 PM   #3
DSmith
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Sep 2011
Robbinsdale, MN
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You can use relay 1 for heating and relay 2 for cooling. Here are the most important inputs, the other inputs are basically allowable ranges and alarms described in the manual:

SP1 = temperature for the heater to shut off at
SP2 = temperature range between where the freezer shuts off and the heater turns on (accounts for the thermal mass of the freezer to keep cooling the beer so the heater doesn't turn)
R0 = dep
R1 = differential for relay 1 (heating)
R2 = differential for relay 2 (cooling)
R3 = 0.1
C1 = inv (relay 1 for heating)
C2 = dir (relay 2 for cooling)
P0 = F
P5 = 1 (1 probe)

Relay 1 (cooling)
SP1-R1 = Freezer On
SP1 = Freezer Off

Relay 2 (heating)
SP1+SP2+R2 = Heater On
SP1 + SP2 = Heater Off

Example (1 Probe insulated over on the side of the fermenter)

SP1 = 60
SP2 = 1
R1 = 1
R2 = 1

Heater On = 59F, Heater Off = 60F
Freezer On = 62F, Freezer Off = 61F
(61F-60F) = 1F = SP2 (My chest freezer keeps cooling the fermenter about 1 F lower then the temperature it turns off so setting SP2 to 1F eliminates the heater from coming on right away)

I have my R1 & R2 values set at 0.5F and have the freezer cycle about every 2 hours during active fermentation and the fermenter sees about 1.2F temperature swings. Note that my C1 = dir & C2 = inv to use relay 1 for cooling and relay 2 for heating.

08-24-2012, 09:21 PM   #4
CidahMastah

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Nov 2010
, New York
Posts: 4,242
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slarkin712 and Dsmith - thank you guys a lot! I read the manual but some was making sense and some was not. I can see that my relays are set up cor cooling on output 1 and heating on output two, so I can reverse them and that will solve the first part.

I am running out the door right now but I will come back and digest your suggestions. I am used to the ranco controllers, so I appreciate the tweaks that you guys have come up with here.

I may have a few more questions, but thank you VERY much.
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08-24-2012, 09:35 PM   #5
CidahMastah

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one question.

When you switch the dir/inv for sp1 and sp2, does that make everything backwards?

i.e.

Does :

"Relay 1 (cooling)
SP1-R1 = Freezer On
SP1 = Freezer Off

Relay 2 (heating)
SP1+SP2+R2 = Heater On
SP1 + SP2 = Heater Off"

become:

Relay 2 (cooling)
SP2-R2 = Freezer On
SP2 = Freezer Off

Relay 2 (heating)
SP2+SP1+R1 = Heater On
SP2 + SP1 = Heater Off

Ah crap that doesn't look right... gotta jet and will come back to this when I can think about it correctly
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08-25-2012, 12:26 AM   #6
DSmith
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It does not reverse the + & - like you did. The math is in the manual same as my post.

08-25-2012, 02:49 PM   #7
DSmith
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Sep 2011
Robbinsdale, MN
Posts: 796
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Have you considered a lower wattage heater and using the 16Amp relay for cooling? A 20W heating pad works well and a 100W pet ceramic heat element would be a lot of heat...

http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/heat_wave_lamp.php

08-27-2012, 01:00 PM   #8
CidahMastah

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Nov 2010
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by DSmith Have you considered a lower wattage heater and using the 16Amp relay for cooling? A 20W heating pad works well and a 100W pet ceramic heat element would be a lot of heat... http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/heat_wave_lamp.php
So the math stays the same regardless of the Inv/ DIR ; ok thanks.

I like using that travel hair dryer because it has a fan and works great. My fermentation chamber holds 2 demijohns with plenty of room. Basically, I since it is so large I want an even heating source with a fan. It seems silly to have the freezer/chiller on output 1 though, I mean 16 amp is over kill by a long shot for that unit to work. However just about every space heater is 1500w.

Was out this weekend so I will have to take another look at the above.

sp1 = 66
r1 = 1
sp2 = 1
R2 = 1

Relay 1 (heating)
SP1-R1 = Heater On (65F)
SP1 = Heater Off (66F)

Relay 2 (cooling)
SP1+SP2+R2 = Refridge On (68F)
SP1 + SP2 = Refridge Off (67F)

I will give these settings a try

I should mention, this is my ale fermentation chamber.
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08-27-2012, 01:22 PM   #9
CidahMastah

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so when I used the math on post 8, once the chamber is = or > 68 I expected the cold side element to go on. However it did not...

RO = DEP (edited to RO from CO)
C1 = INV
C2 = DIR
sp1 = 66
r1 = 1
sp2 = 1
R2 = 1
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08-27-2012, 01:45 PM   #10
DSmith
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Robbinsdale, MN
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I looked at your inputs and the cooler plugged into relay 2 should turn on at 68F and off at 67F based on the information in the manual. Could C0 (minumin time between cycles) be set large and not letting the freezer turn on yet (have my C0 = 10 min)? Does the heating side (relay 1) work as expected?