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Old 08-23-2012, 03:39 PM   #11
audger
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just avoid the whole situation all together and build a dedicated HERMS pot... i never liked HLT-as-HERMS designs for this very reason, among others.





also working on a new one, out of stainless...



 
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:08 PM   #12
mightynintendo
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There are a few mentions in some posts here about using an aquarium air pump to agitate the HLT. I think the method is to attach a silicon tube to the air pump's output and submerge into the HLT. Or, I've seen someone mention attaching the air pump output to the HLT's sight glass tube. This seems to be a relatively non-intrusive method, assuming the agitation is adequate.

As for committing to an altogether separate heat exchange tank, I think that would be unnecessary given the cheap and simple solutions for temperature stratification in the HLT. Using the HLT as a heat exchanger provides the opportunity to use less water too. I like that idea.


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Old 08-23-2012, 06:15 PM   #13
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Yah, I'll dig up the thread and link it at the bottom, but the air pump is exactly what I do. I didn't have a sight glass at the time, so I actually drilled a small hole in the bottom of the keg and put a weldless 3/8" fitting on it with a 90deg elbow and a barbed fitting. I run 1/4" tubing up the side of my keggle to the air pump that sits on my lid. It's really surprising, but that tiny stream of bubbles is enough to keep it thoroughly mixed.

The added bonus of this is that you can add a pressure sensor in the tubing and the rig then turns into a digital depth measurement. I haven't calibrated my pressure sensor yet, but it's on the to-do list for the next couple of brewing sessions.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/usin...-works-195561/

 
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:17 PM   #14
RTL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightynintendo

I sort of thought that but I wasn't sure whether the efficiency of a CFC was that much greater than a HERMS coil. If I go this route, I would definitely use an all-copper CFC. Though when sparing I imagine I would probably re route the hlt water away from the coil anyway.

What do you mean by PWM the pump manually?
PWM the element manually, not the pump. PWM stands for pulse width modulate and means you cycle something on and off to reduce the overall current, instead of varying the voltage.

 
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Old 09-15-2012, 04:48 AM   #15
bendiy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightynintendo View Post
Does anyone have any experience or advice on this? Are there any advantages and/or disadvantages I have not considered? Any input would be appreciated.
I just had my first run on it last weekend. Doing exactly as you described. Your thinking is very similar to what I'm doing and I had similar concerns. I don't have my automation of temps finished yet, so this was a "dumb" run of the circulation process, but I was very happy with the results. I should have PID automation in the next few weeks.
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Old 09-15-2012, 04:52 AM   #16
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I'm also trying to work my RIMS tube in on the HTL side of the CFC HEX as a hybrid heat sorce. I also want to see how well it works to just use the RIMS tube and Counter Flow Heat Exchanger in a loop without the HLT.
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:49 PM   #17
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Wouldn't simply recirculating the hot water back to the HLT do the same thing? All my keggles are direct fired so I don't use a coil in my HLT but I do recirculate the HLT to maintain temps. Works well with no coil, I would assume it would at least help with a coil inside.

 
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:18 PM   #18
RichBenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekoob View Post
Wouldn't simply recirculating the hot water back to the HLT do the same thing? All my keggles are direct fired so I don't use a coil in my HLT but I do recirculate the HLT to maintain temps. Works well with no coil, I would assume it would at least help with a coil inside.
Sure. It's just that an extra pump is required, which is more expensive than an aquarium pump. So in a HERMS and single level system, you need three pumps instead of two.

 
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:54 PM   #19
theonetrueruss
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I am thinking all this is over-complicating the issue. The temp of the wort coming out of the herms tube is what is important and if you are regulating your heat source via PID/controller off of that the control should not care about the heat stratification and it just wont matter as long as it can get the wort coming out at a consistent temperature.

I am running my eHERMs without any circulation of the HLT water and only using a simple temp controller and the temp coming out of the coil stays within 1 degree of my set point.

Please tell me where I am wrong?
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:05 AM   #20
bendiy
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HERMS using a CFC only requires two pumps for a single tier system. One recirculates the HLT and one recirculates the Mash.

When the HERMS coil is in the HTL, your mash temp is dependent on the temp of the HTL. You have to control the HLT temp closely and the temp in the HTL is directly related to the temp of the mash. There might be a few degree difference.

There is more control using the CFC. I keep the mash recirculating all the time. That helps to form a nice bed. I control the pump that recirculates the HLT through the CFC. If the mash needs to be hotter, I turn the pump on for the HTL. That moves heat from the HLT to the CFC which acts as a heat exchanger and heats the mash. If the mash is getting too hot, I just cut the pump to the HLT which immediately removes any heat source from the mash. The temp of the HLT doesn't matter as long as it's warmer than the Mash. I try to keep it at 170 sparge out temps.

I can also change the input to the CFC to cold water if I ever need to cool a mash, but hopefully that never happens.



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