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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > mash consistency
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Old 11-10-2005, 05:31 PM   #1
woofy
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Default mash consistency

For various complicated and plain stupid reasons I ended up mashing my 8lbs of grain (marris otter barley and some crystal) in the full 5 gallons of water resulting in a very fluid mash. What will the effect of this be?


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Old 11-10-2005, 06:14 PM   #2
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Worst case is enzyme denaturation. However, at 2.5qts/lb I don't think you're in too bad a shape...probably just suffer a bit on the efficiency.


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Old 11-10-2005, 06:20 PM   #3
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You probably will end up with less fermentable sugars then normal (although this also depends on your temps), so you could have a slightly higher FG then you would have otherwise due to the enzyme denaturing BG mentioned. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 11-10-2005, 06:20 PM   #4
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Default enzyme denaturization

enzyme denaturation? Whats that?
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Old 11-10-2005, 06:23 PM   #5
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that's the "shutting down" of the enzymes. ie; they stop doing the work of converting starch to sugar.

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Old 11-10-2005, 11:21 PM   #6
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2.5 quarts per pound isn't a problem. The two mini-mash porters I did last weekend had about four pounds of grain and the kit said 2.5 gallons @ 160F. They came out exactly on for the OG. The key is, the enzymes are more diluted and will take a little longer to convert. If you mash an hour, you should be fine.
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Old 11-10-2005, 11:25 PM   #7
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Default Highly unlikely...

Its highly unlikely that a dilute mash will cause enzyme denaturation. Enzyme denaturation is commonly caused by heat and/or major pH changes (other methods exist such as detergent). Denaturation is the destruction of the 3 dimensional structure of the enzyme so it is no longer active. The most likely effect of a dilute mash is decreased efficiency due to rate of diffusion of the starch/enzyme mixture. Considering modern grain is highly modified and there are an excess of enzymes a dilute mash should be no problem.

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Old 11-11-2005, 12:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eolle
Its highly unlikely that a dilute mash will cause enzyme denaturation. Enzyme denaturation is commonly caused by heat and/or major pH changes (other methods exist such as detergent). Denaturation is the destruction of the 3 dimensional structure of the enzyme so it is no longer active. The most likely effect of a dilute mash is decreased efficiency due to rate of diffusion of the starch/enzyme mixture. Considering modern grain is highly modified and there are an excess of enzymes a dilute mash should be no problem.

-Eric

Amen brother! Glad to see you know your stuff.
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Old 11-11-2005, 01:46 AM   #9
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Dilute mashes result in less substrate for beta-amylase to latch onto, as well as the enzymes being less heat-stable and hence subject to denaturation. Like I said, efficiency may suffer some.
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Old 11-11-2005, 04:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeGee
Dilute mashes result in less substrate for beta-amylase to latch onto, as well as the enzymes being less heat-stable and hence subject to denaturation. Like I said, efficiency may suffer some.
Yes, efficiency may suffer that you are 100% correct.

Dilute mashes result in a lower substrate density but not less substrate in a closed system unless you spill more in a dilute system and we would have to look at what order enzyme kinetics we are talking about to determine if there would be statistical difference.

The amalyase enzyme is amazingly stable and a dilute mash will not hurt the tertiary/quantinary structure. The half-life of beta-amylase in 18.2 M-ohm water is 10 years at -20 d c, >72 hours at 37 d c and > 24 h at 75 deg C.* I could go on, but it can be boring! However, one cool study showed the stability of alpha and beta-amalyase being nearly 3 months at 70deg C on a solid phase system.

Efficiency will suffer but not due to enzyme stability or denaturation. Efficiency may suffer due to overall substrate concentration but minimally. We could always do a Eadie-Hofstee plot if you want to have fun (more accurate than Lineweaver Burke plots) .

-Eric

* following standard scientific equations of:
Half live= ln2/kd where kd is the deactivation constant


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