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08-20-2012, 08:21 PM   #11
brycelarson
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Jul 2012
Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 529
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watts = amps x volts

so 5500 = ? x 240

= 22.92 amps per element.

yay, use for simple algebra!

now, how you calculate the total load is based on the configuration of the elements themselves - here's a little pdf I found talking about it:

http://www.ppe.com/11cat/0852.pdf

If you're wiring the elements in series or parallel as far as I understand you'll end up pulling the total of all of the elements in the set - so two elements will draw a bit more than 45 amps.

swede - am I wrong about that?

08-20-2012, 08:27 PM   #12
cruelkix
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May 2009
Aurora, CO
Posts: 524
Liked 16 Times on 15 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by _swede_ Each leg will see a current draw that is equivalent to 1.73 of two elements. So, 2*5500/208=52.88amps / 1.73 = 31 amps per leg roughly.
Ok, cool. So he is going to give me a 50 amp 3 phase plug and I will have to run a cord with all 3 legs (and a neutral I would guess) into my panel. From there each leg goes to 1 element a piece then?

Can I use a solid state relay to turn them on and off like I have done in the past?

Thanks for info on all this swede.

08-20-2012, 08:28 PM   #13
_swede_
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Jul 2011
Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 37
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you're still thinking in single phase.

each leg will see 1.73 of the equivalent single phase load of two elements.

so, with 240v and 5500w elements the math is thus...

2*5500/240/1.73=27 amps per leg at 240, remember higher voltage means lower amperage draw...

08-20-2012, 08:29 PM   #14
cruelkix
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May 2009
Aurora, CO
Posts: 524
Liked 16 Times on 15 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by brycelarson watts = amps x volts so 5500 = ? x 240 = 22.92 amps per element. yay, use for simple algebra! now, how you calculate the total load is based on the configuration of the elements themselves - here's a little pdf I found talking about it: http://www.ppe.com/11cat/0852.pdf If you're wiring the elements in series or parallel as far as I understand you'll end up pulling the total of all of the elements in the set - so two elements will draw a bit more than 45 amps. swede - am I wrong about that?
That PDF is neat. I think I will be using either delta or star. I think that is where the confusion is coming from.

08-20-2012, 08:31 PM   #15
_swede_
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Jul 2011
Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 37
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by cruelkix Ok, cool. So he is going to give me a 50 amp 3 phase plug and I will have to run a cord with all 3 legs (and a neutral I would guess) into my panel. From there each leg goes to 1 element a piece then? Can I use a solid state relay to turn them on and off like I have done in the past? Thanks for info on all this swede.
Use 40amp rated ssr's and you should be good. There's no need for a neutral in your panel if you arent planning on running any 120v stuff in there. You still need a ground though.

The ssrs will switch power to the elements, yes. Three ssrs, three lines in, three elements out. The wiring is pretty straighforward if you want to switch all three on and off at the same time, if you want individual control of each element it gets a bit more complicated.

08-20-2012, 08:34 PM   #16
brycelarson
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Jul 2012
Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 529
Liked 55 Times on 49 Posts

right, the square root of 3... Is that right?

Sorry, it's been a while. I work with entertainment electrical systems all the time - but they're all 120/208 stuff.

08-20-2012, 08:37 PM   #17
cruelkix
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May 2009
Aurora, CO
Posts: 524
Liked 16 Times on 15 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by _swede_ Use 40amp rated ssr's and you should be good. There's no need for a neutral in your panel if you arent planning on running any 120v stuff in there. You still need a ground though. The ssrs will switch power to the elements, yes. Three ssrs, three lines in, three elements out. The wiring is pretty straighforward if you want to switch all three on and off at the same time, if you want individual control of each element it gets a bit more complicated.
Nice. That works perfectly. I have all 6 40amp SSRs already, so I'm glad I can use those.

08-20-2012, 08:41 PM   #18
cruelkix
Recipes

May 2009
Aurora, CO
Posts: 524
Liked 16 Times on 15 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by _swede_ Use 40amp rated ssr's and you should be good. There's no need for a neutral in your panel if you arent planning on running any 120v stuff in there. You still need a ground though. The ssrs will switch power to the elements, yes. Three ssrs, three lines in, three elements out. The wiring is pretty straighforward if you want to switch all three on and off at the same time, if you want individual control of each element it gets a bit more complicated.
Also, I don't think it is a big deal if I run them all at once or individually. Individually would let me do smaller batches, but that is about the only reason I can think of not running all 3 at once.

08-21-2012, 12:44 AM   #19
P-J
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Mar 2010
Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,336
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by cruelkix Also, I don't think it is a big deal if I run them all at once or individually. Individually would let me do smaller batches, but that is about the only reason I can think of not running all 3 at once.
Sounds like you need a wiring plan (diagram) with a little more info in it to help you sort it all out. With that said, I spent a few hours this evening drawing a diagram for you using 240V - 3 Phase Delta power that should fit your needs.

The RTD temp probe could be the Deluxe version of Liquid Tight RTD Sensor. It is well worth the extra \$9 for it.

With the Auber Instrument PID SYL-2352, you have a manual mode that will allow you to dial the power down and control the boil rate. I also show a 3rd PID for the Mash Tun. This is for monorting the mash temperature only & only if that is something you want to do.
I hope this is of some help to you.

As always - Click on the image to see a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")

Wishing you the best.

P-J

cruelkix Likes This
08-21-2012, 12:53 AM   #20
cruelkix
Recipes

May 2009
Aurora, CO
Posts: 524
Liked 16 Times on 15 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by P-J Sounds like you need a wiring plan (diagram) with a little more info in it to help you sort it all out. With that said, I spent a few hours this evening drawing a diagram for you using 240V - 3 Phase Delta power that should fit your needs. The RTD temp probe could be the Deluxe version of Liquid Tight RTD Sensor. It is well worth the extra \$9 for it. With the Auber Instrument PID SYL-2352, you have a manual mode that will allow you to dial the power down and control the boil rate. I also show a 3rd PID for the Mash Tun. This is for monorting the mash temperature only & only if that is something you want to do. I hope this is of some help to you. As always - Click on the image to see a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17") Wishing you the best. P-J
You're so awesome. I've seen you put these together for other people and seriously, you just rock. Thanks so much for spending the time for me and all the other people you have helped.

If you are in the Denver area ever come to my brewery (High Gravity Brewing, Inc.) and you drink for free that night for all the help you given on this forum.

I'm opening in December I hope.

On a details side of things:

I only have one pump so that cleans up the bottom a bit and all of the ssr switching and temperature sensors run off of my Labjack that I use to run the system. Its all automated and nice and has a 7" touchscreen for turning on and off everything and setting temperatures and power percentages for maintaining boil and such. So all the PID stuff can dissappear as well and get replaced with the I/O device for the labjack.

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