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Old 08-08-2012, 05:11 PM   #1
bobbrews
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Default Alpine Nelson Clone Attempt

What do you guys think of my attempt for this beer? Looks like I hit all the numbers.

Might brew this one next...

http://hopville.com/recipe/1462138/a...-clone-attempt
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:46 PM   #2
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I love this beer so I'm going to see good results
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:32 PM   #3
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Don't use that one...

http://hopville.com/recipe/408239/am...ctually-brewed

That one is more accurate as it is supposedly from Pat himself.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trent View Post
Don't use that one...

http://hopville.com/recipe/408239/am...ctually-brewed

That one is more accurate as it is supposedly from Pat himself.
I don't know about that. I read that discussion and about the emails that went back and forth. Sounds questionable to me and there is a lot left up in the air if that conversation indeed actually happened. I had a similar conversation with Jamie from Ninkasi, but the information he gave about Tricerahops actually made sense, and I have the email to prove it. Not trying to be a jerk, just wanting to do the real beer justice in both practical truth and respect for the original brewer.

Other than a drier 1.009 FG, which I doubt the homebrewer achieved since it projects finishing at 1.017, I don't see that one producing better or more accurate results. Besides, Alpine's website says it begins at 1.065, so with 7.1% abv, that means it must finish at 1.012. With no sugar used, I project a low mash temp (certainly lower than 153).

The above version seems like a hack recipe with 4 oz. of 6-row in a 9 gallon batch, and three types of 2-rows. Nelson is also not that pale at 4 SRM. The dryhop amount is insane and the IBUs are about 30 lower than the real beer. It makes more sense that big multistage dryhop was done in shorter, chunked time frames. My dryhop is based on 0.9 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer. As a point of reference, Pliny the Younger is based on 1.0 oz. dryhop per gallon of beer. The Golden Rye NZ Hopped version you posted above is based on a 2.0 oz. dryhop per gallon of beer!! Sounds like the euphoric high of having an uber-hopped beer was what created the wow factor to me. In closing, I can see a lot of stuff that's probably dead wrong for the real clone, most noticably the boil off rate is +.4 liters, so he's topping off. A big no-no.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
I don't know about that. I read that discussion and about the emails that went back and forth. Sounds questionable to me and there is a lot left up in the air if that conversation indeed actually happened. I had a similar conversation with Jamie from Ninkasi, but the information he gave about Tricerahops actually made sense, and I have the email to prove it. Not trying to be a jerk, just wanting to do the real beer justice in both practical truth and respect for the original brewer.

Other than a drier 1.009 FG, which I doubt the homebrewer achieved since it projects finishing at 1.017, I don't see that one producing better or more accurate results. Besides, Alpine's website says it begins at 1.065, so with 7.1% abv, that means it must finish at 1.012. With no sugar used, I project a low mash temp (certainly lower than 153).

The above version seems like a hack recipe with 4 oz. of 6-row in a 9 gallon batch, and three types of 2-rows. Nelson is also not that pale at 4 SRM. The dryhop amount is insane and the IBUs are about 30 lower than the real beer. It makes more sense that big multistage dryhop was done in shorter, chunked time frames. My dryhop is based on 0.9 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer. As a point of reference, Pliny the Younger is based on 1.0 oz. dryhop per gallon of beer. The Golden Rye NZ Hopped version you posted above is based on a 2.0 oz. dryhop per gallon of beer!! Sounds like the euphoric high of having an uber-hopped beer was what created the wow factor to me. In closing, I can see a lot of stuff that's probably dead wrong for the real clone, most noticably the boil off rate is +.4 liters, so he's topping off. A big no-no.
i know several people have tried to get info from Pat about any of his beers and he's very tight lipped, I found it odd that he would reply to a random email asking but wouldn't give info to regular customers
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:54 PM   #6
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Any updates or anyone try to brew this? I searched around for tried Nelson IPA recipes and I am not really seeing much.
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:19 PM   #7
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they made a video of them making it

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Old 05-16-2014, 11:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
I don't know about that. I read that discussion and about the emails that went back and forth. Sounds questionable to me and there is a lot left up in the air if that conversation indeed actually happened. I had a similar conversation with Jamie from Ninkasi, but the information he gave about Tricerahops actually made sense, and I have the email to prove it. Not trying to be a jerk, just wanting to do the real beer justice in both practical truth and respect for the original brewer.

Other than a drier 1.009 FG, which I doubt the homebrewer achieved since it projects finishing at 1.017, I don't see that one producing better or more accurate results. Besides, Alpine's website says it begins at 1.065, so with 7.1% abv, that means it must finish at 1.012. With no sugar used, I project a low mash temp (certainly lower than 153).

The above version seems like a hack recipe with 4 oz. of 6-row in a 9 gallon batch, and three types of 2-rows. Nelson is also not that pale at 4 SRM. The dryhop amount is insane and the IBUs are about 30 lower than the real beer. It makes more sense that big multistage dryhop was done in shorter, chunked time frames. My dryhop is based on 0.9 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer. As a point of reference, Pliny the Younger is based on 1.0 oz. dryhop per gallon of beer. The Golden Rye NZ Hopped version you posted above is based on a 2.0 oz. dryhop per gallon of beer!! Sounds like the euphoric high of having an uber-hopped beer was what created the wow factor to me. In closing, I can see a lot of stuff that's probably dead wrong for the real clone, most noticably the boil off rate is +.4 liters, so he's topping off. A big no-no.
and he does top off
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:16 PM   #9
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And this is why we don't use recipes on other sites... all the hopville links are dead! Would love to know if anyone has gotten far with Nelson. I tried it while visiting the leftcoast, and was spectacular.
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:01 AM   #10
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I've been studying that video. Here are some facts:
1 sack of Weyerman Carabohemian
1 sack of Simpson's Maris Otter
3 sacks of Rolled Oat flakes
3 five gallon pails of unidentified grain
2 6 gallon pails of unidentified grain
(4 of which (two 6gal & two 5gal) are "identified as Rye" at one point in the video *but could be misleading)
Base malt 2 row *unspecified quantity
OG 1.065
ABV 7.0%

with a total grain bill of approximately 850lbs.

10 Bbl system
25 Bbl fermenters out back (for Nelson as stated in the video)
They brew twice to get 12 Bbl from each batch.

Batch size: ?
Pulled house yeast off of yeast cake from 4 to 5 day old batch of Nelson.
Added Clarity ferm before adding yeast to wort
FWH: NZ hop variety (unspecified) 2.0 qts pellets *all I could see was volume*
2nd hop addition after 60 minutes: 1 qt. Nelson Sauvin + Whirlfloc
3rd hop addition at 75 minutes: 1 qt. Southern Cross + Yeast Nutrient
4th hop addition at (90 ? ) min: 3 qt. Nelson Sauvin + 2 qt. Southern Cross
Then flameout/knockout.
Cool & O2 wort/transfer to 25Bbl fermenter.
Ferments 7 to 10 days.
Then cold crash & remove yeast cake.
Dry hop w/ (2) 5 gallon buckets of unidentified hops for 2 weeks *circulated*

Only a few unknowns after watching this video.

1. If the truth was told about everything in those buckets, then only (1) 5 gallon bucket of grain is unknown. That's a small % of the grain bill and since they're brewing in S.D. a VERY hoppy beer I'll lean towards acidulated malt as my guess.

2. FWH addition. Now, it's claimed to be an all NZ hop beer so this one can't be too hard to calculate and work backwards toward knowing all the numbers on hop additions 2 through 4.

3. Dry hop. Well, it's a Nelson beer with a big Nelson nose, I would lean towards the KISS principle on that one.

I'm going to start plugging in some numbers on brew software to see how close I can get to the numbers making a few assumptions after scaling down from a 850lb grain bill.
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