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Old 08-07-2012, 11:22 PM   #21
amandabab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billl View Post
If it is any consolation, water temps vary considerably based on outdoor ground temps. Yours might be coming out of the tap at 80 right now, but for most of the year, it is probably substantially lower than that.
This.

its bloody hot right now and our ground water is 75, has been for almost a week.

 
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:18 PM   #22
h22lude
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Originally Posted by BronxBrew
The difference was that on full blast. The water coming out was luke warm at best. dialing back the the flow. The water coming out was hotter. Not to mention the temp gage dropped faster. The thermo dynamics mentioned above is relative to what works on paper. Its right in theory to what it is relative to. I'm talking a large volume "Garden hose" going the 3/8 of copper tubing. Volume is displaced by pressure. It does give the water enough time to "soak up" the heat. "Sorry high school teacher in NYC".
Easy way to figure this out is to do a test. Full blast and then half blast. Easy enough. I don't know anything about water flow and temp displacement but what you are saying makes sense. Full blast might be pushing water to fast through. You would want the temp of the water exiting to be as close to the temp of the wort. That would mean the chiller is working 100%.
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:21 PM   #23
MalFet
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Originally Posted by h22lude View Post
Easy way to figure this out is to do a test. Full blast and then half blast. Easy enough. I don't know anything about water flow and temp displacement but what you are saying makes sense. Full blast might be pushing water to fast through. You would want the temp of the water exiting to be as close to the temp of the wort. That would mean the chiller is working 100%.
Throttling your water flow rate may improve your efficiency, but it won't improve your chill rate.
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:35 PM   #24
chumpsteak
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I use a pre-chiller in a bucket of ice water and find that I have to throttle back the flow substantially in order to get the water coming out of the pre-chiller as cold as possible. This in turn though cuts the flow to the chiller in my wort, so I am apparently not doing myself any favors by getting the water going into the kettle chiller colder if it's just getting saturated with heat as soon as it kits the chiller. Sounds like next time I should try keeping the water on full blast and agitating the pre-chiller to get better cold transfer.

 
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:48 PM   #25
billl
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When you are using a pre-chiller, the effect is much more complicated. A slower flow rate through the pre-chiller makes the water colder and speeds up the rate of heat transfer in the main chiller. This is balanced against the "more water = faster cooling rate" of the regular chiller. Which method "wins" really depends on the specifics of your setup.

Agitating the pre-chiller will increase the cooling rate regardless of flow rate just like stirring the wort does. It's the same reason - the heat transfer is proportional to the difference in temps. The water immediately around the pre-chiller warms up, so moving the chiller drops the water temp the chiller is experiencing.

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Old 08-08-2012, 04:50 PM   #26
fergusmj
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Could you add salt water to your pre chiller to help get it even colder? or would this have no effect?

 
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:51 PM   #27
LateraLex
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I'm going to built a prechiller as I know that can be made for about $25 at Lowe's. I wanted a pond pump, but after doing some searching on the forum, it didn't sound like a cheapie one would work. I would love to hear that I'm wrong, as I'd gladly shell out $30 to recirculate the water.

 
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:58 PM   #28
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All,

The key to heat transfer is temperature difference - the greater the delta T the more heat is transferred per unit of time. If you want to go fast run the cooling water as fast a possible. The concept of giving the cooling media time to absorb the heat is completely in error. I am certain - I am a Chemical Engineer.

 
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Old 08-08-2012, 06:10 PM   #29
iskuse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinTexas View Post
All,

The key to heat transfer is temperature difference - the greater the delta T the more heat is transferred per unit of time. If you want to go fast run the cooling water as fast a possible. The concept of giving the cooling media time to absorb the heat is completely in error. I am certain - I am a Chemical Engineer.
What he said!

 
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Old 08-08-2012, 06:11 PM   #30
jbaysurfer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinTexas View Post
All,

The key to heat transfer is temperature difference - the greater the delta T the more heat is transferred per unit of time. If you want to go fast run the cooling water as fast a possible. The concept of giving the cooling media time to absorb the heat is completely in error. I am certain - I am a Chemical Engineer.
Is this chemistry or physics, probably both for all I know, I'm a finance guy.

As Mal Fet says, you can certainly increase cooling rate by increasing flow, but you're not using your water very efficiently that way. I know. I carry all my run off water in buckets to various places in my yard to water plants/lawn/etc.

I thought a lot about this last night as I brewed and cooled with my pre-chiller/IC combination, and yes...it makes sense to slow the flow through the prechiller to cool the water inside the coil before it enters the IC in the brew pot.

I run it at a bit more then a trickle. Takes about 10 minutes or so fill a 6G bucket. Then I haul that bucket off to the sink for cleaning (first bucket is usually quite hot and great for cleaning!) and then watering the yard thereafter. Last night I cooled my full boil batch in hot weather in 35 minutes down to pitch temp.

I will say this, this thread got me thinking about my chilling technique and shortened my typical brewday by almost an hour. Other efficiencies during the mash/sparge steps and remembering to heat the sparge water BEFORE starting my vorlauf took another hour (almost) off. Altogether I did a full boil 5 G batch with batch sparging and the prechiller/IC setup in 4.5 hours, including cleanup. My fastest AG brew yet!
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