Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Decoction vs melanoidin malt
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-07-2012, 08:11 PM   #11
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UP of Michigan
Posts: 64,792
Liked 5772 Times on 4131 Posts
Likes Given: 1448

Default

Very interesting! Thank you for this.


__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006

Follow me on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lorena.t.evans
But I'm pretty boring so don't expect much!
https://www.facebook.com/lorena.t.evans
Yooper is online now
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 09:44 PM   #12
Nateo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bennett Springs, MO
Posts: 2,055
Liked 38 Times on 30 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

Thanks for all the kind words everyone. Over the years I've gone from being a decoction skeptic, to a true believer, back to a skeptic again. After this study, I'm more willing to use decoction mashes in certain situations. Decoction does a couple cool things that infusion mashing doesn't, but it definitely doesn't increase "maltiness" more than specialty grain can.


__________________
To paraphrase Dr. England - "Off-flavors smooth with time. So do mountains. Brew it right from the start!"

My blogsite: http://nateobrew.blogspot.com/
Nateo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 02:42 AM   #13
PBbrew2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 10
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Nate, its posts like yours that compelled me to join this website in the first place; really appreciate your sharing the results. I have been reading up quite a bit on this very topic and have to say that anecdotal evidence from guys like you go a long way. One day i hope to contribute back to this forum with such helpful info as you have. Cheers my friend,
PBbrew2 is offline
JPrather Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 08:07 PM   #14
Trillium
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 94
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Very interesting and well done. You probably should have done the comparision with single dedoction, or at most a double decoction. Most German Breweries have moved in this direction due to better quality and higher modified malts.
Trillium is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 08:50 PM   #15
Nateo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bennett Springs, MO
Posts: 2,055
Liked 38 Times on 30 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trillium View Post
Very interesting and well done. You probably should have done the comparision with single dedoction, or at most a double decoction. Most German Breweries have moved in this direction due to better quality and higher modified malts.
I wanted to go with the largest conceivable difference in mashing to see if there really was a difference. Still, the beers were very similar, and a couple people mistakenly ID'd duplicates. I think the potential effects from one mashing regime vs another are astonishingly small, in practice. If the most extreme ends of the mashing spectrum yielded very similar results, I doubt intermediate mashing schedules would be discernibly different.

But, I'd love for someone to prove me wrong, and I'd be happy to volunteer my taste buds if anyone wants to perform a similar experiment.
__________________
To paraphrase Dr. England - "Off-flavors smooth with time. So do mountains. Brew it right from the start!"

My blogsite: http://nateobrew.blogspot.com/
Nateo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 05:07 PM   #16
ReverseApacheMaster
Registered User
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Keller, Texas
Posts: 4,887
Liked 232 Times on 193 Posts

Default

I would also volunteer my taste buds, you know, for the sake of the hobby.

I didn't start out as a decoction skeptic but I'm definitely more open to the skepticism than I used to be. I've tasted commercial beers I'd swear were decocted but weren't and ones that were that I detect no character associated with decoction mashes. Live Oak Hefeweizen is an exceptional hefeweizen and conventional logic says that's definitely a beer that's decocted because it's very thick and malty but it's not. They just do a single infusion. I'm not sure if they use melanoidin malt or carapils or something else but it's definitely not missing anything without the decoction mash.

In my own brewing I feel like there's a noticeable difference in a few of my beers I decoction mash so I don't think I would give it up although I could probably get very close to the same effect with some melanoidin malt and/or carapils.
ReverseApacheMaster is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 05:14 PM   #17
Nateo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bennett Springs, MO
Posts: 2,055
Liked 38 Times on 30 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

The triple-decocted beer was described as less malty than the melanoidin malt beer. So if you want malty, don't expect a decoction to automatically give you that profile.

There was definitely a very small difference, though the decocted beer was the opposite of the "conventional wisdom" expectation. It was perceived as less malty and more bitter.
__________________
To paraphrase Dr. England - "Off-flavors smooth with time. So do mountains. Brew it right from the start!"

My blogsite: http://nateobrew.blogspot.com/
Nateo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 10:50 PM   #18
Spintab
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 470
Liked 36 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trillium View Post
Very interesting and well done. You probably should have done the comparision with single dedoction, or at most a double decoction. Most German Breweries have moved in this direction due to better quality and higher modified malts.
I'm with this guy (gal?). Why a compare with a no-sparge? You're leaving out the control from the scientific method. It's a great write up and all but a proper experiment would be same recipe, same yeast, same sparge, different mash methods. If you then determine there is a difference, then introduce the melanoidin. I don't mean to be naggy but this is a pretty frequently disputed subject and it could use a good thorough experiment.
__________________
Primary: Honey Kolsch Take 2
Kegged: Alt
Kegged: meBohPils
Bottled: Belgian Gold
Spintab is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 11:19 PM   #19
Nateo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bennett Springs, MO
Posts: 2,055
Liked 38 Times on 30 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

If tasters struggled to identify how and which beers are different in the most extreme case, how would making the beers more similar yield better results? But, if you think your experiment would be more valid, I'd be happy to lend my tastebuds.
__________________
To paraphrase Dr. England - "Off-flavors smooth with time. So do mountains. Brew it right from the start!"

My blogsite: http://nateobrew.blogspot.com/
Nateo is offline
JasontheBeaver Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 07:06 PM   #20
JasontheBeaver
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JasontheBeaver's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 222
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nateo View Post
If tasters struggled to identify how and which beers are different in the most extreme case, how would making the beers more similar yield better results?
I agree with this.
Thanks for taking the time to do the experiment and post the results for all of us to judge for ourselves.


JasontheBeaver is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
non decoction melanoidin developement Bsquared General Techniques 6 10-23-2011 10:55 PM
Single Infusion Oktoberfest, is melanoidin malt needed? BostonBrewins General Techniques 4 08-27-2011 03:23 PM
Using melanoidin malt in an English bitter Pommy General Techniques 3 08-02-2011 05:04 AM
Decoction sabresfan44 General Techniques 2 06-17-2010 02:50 PM
Decoction? chode720 General Techniques 3 12-14-2009 03:01 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS