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Old 11-08-2012, 02:34 PM   #21
ajbram
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All I can say is I used it as I mentioned earlier and I really like it. I'm also not the only one who has really liked this recipe. Matt, as a researcher who studies water I can tell you there is a lot more going on with water chemistry than what we typically pay attention to as brewers. My suspicion is that a lot of what people perceive as far as different hop aromas/flavours comes down to interactions between hops and water in the boil. Maybe I'm just in an area that it works for me. I order my NZ hops from hopshack.com if it helps.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:19 PM   #22
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Some folks must have hard water that changes how we percieve hop flavors & aromas. We have soft water that's worked real well so far.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:05 PM   #23

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbram View Post
All I can say is I used it as I mentioned earlier and I really like it. I'm also not the only one who has really liked this recipe. Matt, as a researcher who studies water I can tell you there is a lot more going on with water chemistry than what we typically pay attention to as brewers. My suspicion is that a lot of what people perceive as far as different hop aromas/flavours comes down to interactions between hops and water in the boil. Maybe I'm just in an area that it works for me. I order my NZ hops from hopshack.com if it helps.
I am totally uninterested in trying this hop again, so won't be ordering it. From NZ, I love Nelson Sauvin, which some other people hate as well. There are tons and tons of other hops I love. I see no reason to try the only hop that I hate again. It'd be a total waste of time and effort.

I don't think it's interaction with the water. When I used it, it had a very harsh, pungent Black Currant or other berry note that was totally unpleasant. The bittering is fine, it's the flavor and aroma that I don't like.

Anyway, the water was adjusted with 62% distilled water and various salts added to achieve this:

Ca 111
Mg 25
Na 3
Chloride 95
Sulfate 138
Alkalinity 120
RA 27
Chloride to Sulfate ratio .68 bitter.

It's not an overly harsh water for an APA. I've made dozens of APAs using similar water with many, many other hops and had no such problem.

Anyway, I'm not interested in being convinced that I am wrong on something that is clearly a matter of personal preference. I hate this hop and will never use it again. The original post asked what people thought of this hop, so I chimed in. I am not trying to convince you that you are wrong. If you like it, that's fine. I hate it. And I'm not alone. If I had read reactions like mine before I used it, I likely would have selected another hop and wouldn't have wasted my time.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:01 AM   #24
Halbrust
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I'll soon find out if I like them or not. Making a hop forward wheat beer using Pacif Gem only. Doing a small batch, but it'll be the equivelent of 1.3 oz as 20 minutes and 1.3 oz dry hopped. Only about 40 IBU, but the hop taste and arroma will be very aggressive.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:10 PM   #25
ajbram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattHollingsworth View Post
I am totally uninterested in trying this hop again, so won't be ordering it. From NZ, I love Nelson Sauvin, which some other people hate as well. There are tons and tons of other hops I love. I see no reason to try the only hop that I hate again. It'd be a total waste of time and effort.

I don't think it's interaction with the water. When I used it, it had a very harsh, pungent Black Currant or other berry note that was totally unpleasant. The bittering is fine, it's the flavor and aroma that I don't like.

Anyway, the water was adjusted with 62% distilled water and various salts added to achieve this:

Ca 111
Mg 25
Na 3
Chloride 95
Sulfate 138
Alkalinity 120
RA 27
Chloride to Sulfate ratio .68 bitter.

It's not an overly harsh water for an APA. I've made dozens of APAs using similar water with many, many other hops and had no such problem.

Anyway, I'm not interested in being convinced that I am wrong on something that is clearly a matter of personal preference. I hate this hop and will never use it again. The original post asked what people thought of this hop, so I chimed in. I am not trying to convince you that you are wrong. If you like it, that's fine. I hate it. And I'm not alone. If I had read reactions like mine before I used it, I likely would have selected another hop and wouldn't have wasted my time.
Like I said, there are literally thousands of other ions that could be affecting your water chemistry that we as brewers do not even consider. Many of these things are not removed by distillation and many cannot be measured without some very expensive instruments. I'm not trying to convince you you are wrong, because it is a matter of preference and if the hop hasn't worked for you, there could be a million reasons. Similarly there could be a million reasons that it worked really well for me. As the original poster, I must point out that I did my homework and saw mixed reviews, but since this is a relatively new hop variety, I thought I would see if anyone had used it recently and what they thought. As you can see, there were mixed reviews again, so I decided the worst that could happen is I spoil $15 worth of grains and yeast. Not a big deal. Had I read comments like yours earlier, maybe I wouldn't have tried it and I would have deprived myself and my friends of a very tasty beer. You have made your point. You are entitled to your opinion, so I don't see why you feel the need to take offence or assume that we are trying to convince you otherwise. No need to be argumentative, so RDWHAHB. For me, the results speak for themselves though. At parties and homebrew club meetings, this always receives high praise and disappears quickly with requests for more.

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Old 11-09-2012, 02:12 PM   #26
ajbram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halbrust View Post
I'll soon find out if I like them or not. Making a hop forward wheat beer using Pacif Gem only. Doing a small batch, but it'll be the equivelent of 1.3 oz as 20 minutes and 1.3 oz dry hopped. Only about 40 IBU, but the hop taste and arroma will be very aggressive.
Sounds like a good experiment Hal, let me know how it turns out!
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:03 PM   #27
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Maybe the water profile is pushing towars hard water favoring other hops. but easily pushes pacific gem into harsh territory?
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:37 PM   #28
ajbram
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I'm in a high limestone area here, and our tap water receives minimal treatment so is pretty hard, but Pac Gem was pretty tasty.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:07 PM   #29
sloose
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I saw this at my lhbs the other day. I couldn't get Citra and they tried to sub me some simcoe (which I already had at home) or the bag of pacific gem they had just gotten from their purveyor. It smelled beautiful in the Mylar bag I shoulda grabbed some.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:22 PM   #30
ajbram
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Just brewed another batch of this. I should point out that I use this with Weyermann Vienna malt, which is a nice fruity malt. Perhaps The berry notes and oaky bitterness are best with a fruitier malt and not so nice with a different grain bill? I dunno, but this continues to be one tasty brew!
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