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Old 07-27-2012, 11:21 PM   #21
Brewligan
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May be a stupid question on my part but wouldn't this gallon of water change your target gravity or are you calculating this extra gallon in your #s. I have single a tier and use an immersion chiller to cool my wort. Interested in knowing other methods of cooling people use, just haven't heard of this one.

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Old 07-27-2012, 11:25 PM   #22
Firebat138
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we just use the garden hose... no infection here...
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewligan View Post
May be a stupid question on my part but wouldn't this gallon of water change your target gravity or are you calculating this extra gallon in your #s. I have single a tier and use an immersion chiller to cool my wort. Interested in knowing other methods of cooling people use, just haven't heard of this one.
My guess is that the OP is brewing extract and using the ice for chilling and as top-off water.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:09 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Onlooker View Post
Sorry, not true. You don't kill off bacteria (well, some will die but not all) by freezing. They just go dormant, for the most part. Just like you can't kill bacteria on meat (or other foods) by freezing. (I'm not talking about liquid nitrogen cold or absolute zero , just normal deep freezer cold).

Bottom line is: don't fool yourself into thinking you can sterilize water by freezing it.
I'm not sure how well this translates to brewing, but I used to work in the meat department of a supermarket that made fresh sushi in the store. We had to keep the fish in a freezer that stayed lower than -4F because that was the lowest that infectious bacteria have been known to survive at. I'm not sure about wild yeast spores or some of the bacteria that can hurt your beer, but I'm willing to bet that if you brewed a beer using things only sanitized by freezing below -4F for a day or more that it would work out for you.

Most people's home freezers don't go that low, however, so it kind of is a moot point in that regard.

 
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:14 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by jmweirick View Post
I'm not sure how well this translates to brewing, but I used to work in the meat department of a supermarket that made fresh sushi in the store. We had to keep the fish in a freezer that stayed lower than -4F because that was the lowest that infectious bacteria have been known to survive at. I'm not sure about wild yeast spores or some of the bacteria that can hurt your beer, but I'm willing to bet that if you brewed a beer using things only sanitized by freezing below -4F for a day or more that it would work out for you.
How long did they keep that fish hanging around? My guess is it was consumed rather quickly. With beer we're talking about liquid that might be sitting around as long as a month in the fermenter and possibly longer in a bottle or keg. That gives one or two bacteria plenty of time for multiplying into a large enough quantity to cause problems vs. a small amount in food that when consumed likely isn't enough to make a person sick..
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:31 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Stauffbier View Post
How long did they keep that fish hanging around? My guess is it was consumed rather quickly. With beer we're talking about liquid that might be sitting around as long as a month in the fermenter and possibly longer in a bottle or keg. That gives one or two bacteria plenty of time for multiplying into a large enough quantity to cause problems vs. a small amount in food that when consumed likely isn't enough to make a person sick..
Very excellent point. Like I said, wasn't sure how well it translated into brewing

 
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:49 AM   #27
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It's all semantics. In reality it's pretty hard to infect your beer. That's not to say we shouldn't practice good sanitation all of the time, just in case. It's just saying that we could likely slack a little in our process and suffer none the worse for it. This even inspires me to buy a decent food grade bucket, and make a batch of beer without ever sanitizing the bucket. Or the bottles for that matter. Just to see what happens. Maybe a small, one gallon batch. Just for the sake of science and experimentation!

**Disclaimer** I do not recommend anyone tries this at home!
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:57 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmweirick View Post
We had to keep the fish in a freezer that stayed lower than -4F because that was the lowest that infectious bacteria have been known to survive at.
Sorry, that's just not true. I'll bet you if you freeze some meat to that temp and then take it out and put it in a sealed sterilized container you'll see just how much bacteria will have survived.

And -4 F is not that extremely cold for a freezer. That's pretty standard for your average household freezer, and a freezer-only unit will even go quite a bit lower.

Believe what you will, no big deal. But do some more research on it and you'll see what I'm talking about.

 
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Old 07-28-2012, 05:58 AM   #29
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I think the issue is that at those temperatures the bacteria can't propagate or produce spoilage compounds, not that they die. So at that temp the bugs are dormant and don't ruin the fish, but they don't die. But then the bacteria are killed when you cook the fish.
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