Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > How to step 100b cells to 800b cells
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-19-2012, 06:38 PM   #1
alfista
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 181
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default How to step 100b cells to 800b cells

Hi all,

I'm trying to use yeastcalc or mrmalty to figure out how to scale a fresh vial of yeast from 100bn cells to 800bn using a 1.8L flask and a stir plate. I can't seem to find a good guide on how to do this. Any thoughts, tips?

Cheers,

Jason
alfista is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 06:47 PM   #2
tally350z
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
tally350z's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 1,261
Liked 85 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

You would have to do a multiple step starter. Maybe even like 5 or more, 1-1.5 liter starters. Might be best to use more than 1 vial if you have access to more..
__________________
Toasting Tortoise Brewery
Primary - Smoked Belgium
Secondary - SOUR TORTOISE
Kegged
- Burton IPA, Munich Lager, Cream Ale
Bottled - Muscadine Port, Imperial Stout

North Florida Brewers League
tally350z is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 06:54 PM   #3
pabloj13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,553
Liked 91 Times on 79 Posts
Likes Given: 109

Default

3 1.8L starters would get you to ~750 billion cells. Of course, you won't be able to fit that much in your flask. Probably 4 steps as much as you can fit in the flask will get you close. I would get a larger flask, personally. 2 3L starters would get you there.
__________________

Kegged Two Hearted, Dragonmead Final Absolution
Bottled Robust porter, Founder's Breakfast Stout, Ommegawd Hellepin, Ed Wort's Apfelwein
RIP Snake Dog IPA, Biermuncher's OktoberFAST, Falconer's Flight IPA, Two-Hearted clone (Culturing Bell's Yeast), Noberon wheat, Skeeter Pee using dry yeast, Smooth Oatmeal Stout


Simple and easy wort aeration - Harvest yeast from your blowoff - Homebrew Spicy Mustard
pabloj13 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 07:00 PM   #4
tally350z
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
tally350z's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 1,261
Liked 85 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Just out of curiosity what are you going to make that requires 800B cells?
__________________
Toasting Tortoise Brewery
Primary - Smoked Belgium
Secondary - SOUR TORTOISE
Kegged
- Burton IPA, Munich Lager, Cream Ale
Bottled - Muscadine Port, Imperial Stout

North Florida Brewers League
tally350z is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 07:04 PM   #5
osagedr
Recovering from Sobriety
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
osagedr's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 2,507
Liked 101 Times on 85 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

Well there might not be any tips outside what you already know given your equipment.

A couple of other thoughts: (1) make a smaller beer, then use slurry in your big beer. (2) use dry yeast. Neither of those might be optimal, but either of them will work to get you to 800 billion+ cells if you don't want to take the time to make multi-step starters.
__________________
2012 Canadian Brewer of the Year
2013 Canadian Brewer of the Year

@evilgoatbrewing
osagedr is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 07:51 PM   #6
alfista
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 181
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Thanks all for the tips.

The thought was to replicate some yeast without going through the yeast washing process, for a few upcoming batches of beer. I don't mind the time and effort as my stir plate and flasks have more downtime than the carboys, and I thought it would be a fun thing to do from an educational perspective. From a process perspective, I was interested in the math of the stepping process to not over-stress the yeast.
alfista is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 09:01 PM   #7
pabloj13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,553
Liked 91 Times on 79 Posts
Likes Given: 109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfista View Post
Thanks all for the tips.

The thought was to replicate some yeast without going through the yeast washing process, for a few upcoming batches of beer. I don't mind the time and effort as my stir plate and flasks have more downtime than the carboys, and I thought it would be a fun thing to do from an educational perspective. From a process perspective, I was interested in the math of the stepping process to not over-stress the yeast.
Honestly I would do it a different way. Rather than step up to such a huge amount of yeast. I would just get up to 20-30 billion yeast in a jar per batch. Then you can just do a quick two-step starter when you are ready to roll. 500mL > 1.5L and you are up over 200 billion cells. A lot easier, IMO.
__________________

Kegged Two Hearted, Dragonmead Final Absolution
Bottled Robust porter, Founder's Breakfast Stout, Ommegawd Hellepin, Ed Wort's Apfelwein
RIP Snake Dog IPA, Biermuncher's OktoberFAST, Falconer's Flight IPA, Two-Hearted clone (Culturing Bell's Yeast), Noberon wheat, Skeeter Pee using dry yeast, Smooth Oatmeal Stout


Simple and easy wort aeration - Harvest yeast from your blowoff - Homebrew Spicy Mustard
pabloj13 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 10:48 PM   #8
duboman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 6,364
Liked 505 Times on 467 Posts
Likes Given: 226

Default

Keep in mind that the idea of a starter is not just to grow yeast but to grow HEALTHY yeast that performs optimally. By trying to just grow a huge amount of yeast to have on hand over time you are actually being counterproductive(IMVHO)
__________________
Nothing Left to do but smile and drink beer.....

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the "art" of beer since 2010
duboman is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 02:54 AM   #9
msa8967
mickaweapon
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
msa8967's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: North Liberty, Iowa
Posts: 2,696
Liked 79 Times on 65 Posts
Likes Given: 87

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by duboman View Post
Keep in mind that the idea of a starter is not just to grow yeast but to grow HEALTHY yeast that performs optimally. By trying to just grow a huge amount of yeast to have on hand over time you are actually being counterproductive(IMVHO)
Could you expand more on explaining the difference between increasing the yeast cell count and increasing the amount of healthy yeast cells? I would like to know about the proper way to raise more healthy yeast cells or at least things one should avoid in building up a starter.
__________________
Mick Arnett
North Liberty, Iowa
"Beer will change the world. I don't know how, but it will."
msa8967 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 10:40 AM   #10
pabloj13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,553
Liked 91 Times on 79 Posts
Likes Given: 109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msa8967 View Post
Could you expand more on explaining the difference between increasing the yeast cell count and increasing the amount of healthy yeast cells? I would like to know about the proper way to raise more healthy yeast cells or at least things one should avoid in building up a starter.
It's all about inoculation rate or the number of cells per mL of wort. The OP can step up starters over time to achieve 800B cells in that small flask, but those cells will be competing for a limited amount of nutrients, oxygen, etc. This will stress them out and weaken them. Ideally you would just keep a smaller amount of yeast stored in the fridge and do a quick step up before brew day.
__________________

Kegged Two Hearted, Dragonmead Final Absolution
Bottled Robust porter, Founder's Breakfast Stout, Ommegawd Hellepin, Ed Wort's Apfelwein
RIP Snake Dog IPA, Biermuncher's OktoberFAST, Falconer's Flight IPA, Two-Hearted clone (Culturing Bell's Yeast), Noberon wheat, Skeeter Pee using dry yeast, Smooth Oatmeal Stout


Simple and easy wort aeration - Harvest yeast from your blowoff - Homebrew Spicy Mustard
pabloj13 is offline
duboman Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how many cells are here? Veedo Fermentation & Yeast 8 06-14-2012 02:11 AM
Starters from 25 billion cells... mattrennert Fermentation & Yeast 14 05-24-2012 02:03 PM
Yeast Cells and Starter Patwik101 Fermentation & Yeast 2 04-24-2012 01:22 AM
Safale US-05...200B cells/pkt? GNBrews Fermentation & Yeast 10 10-14-2011 10:10 PM
Oblong yeast cells jim_reaper1066 Fermentation & Yeast 3 03-06-2011 06:54 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS