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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Help me make a "violently hoppy" IIIPA
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:52 AM   #11
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You can certainly increase the bittering hops. Keep in mind that it's impossible to get more than about 100 IBUs in a wort anyway, even though it calculates much higher, because the wort will reach a saturation point with the hops oils and they will no longer isomerize. Even Pliny the Elder, which calculates out to something like 250 IBUs actually tests out at 80-90 IBUs.

Using words like "violently hoppy" is different than "violently bitter", so I'd clarify with him if he wants "hoppy" or "bitter". They are not the same thing at all!

Really?? The things you learn around here....

I just texted him about his use of hoppy and bitter and his exact words were (edited for "freshness") "Violently hoppy, and pretty F-ing bitter."

This recipe is making me feel overwhelmed for some reason. There are so many different ways to make a great beer, it's almost impossible to decide which route will be the "best"


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Old 07-03-2012, 12:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by BudzAndSudz

Really?? The things you learn around here....

I just texted him about his use of hoppy and bitter and his exact words were (edited for "freshness") "Violently hoppy, and pretty F-ing bitter."

This recipe is making me feel overwhelmed for some reason. There are so many different ways to make a great beer, it's almost impossible to decide which route will be the "best"
All the hops prior to 20 min will likely disappoint... seriously, 1-2 oz (50-60 IBUs) at 60, everything else after 20. Don't waste good hops


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Old 07-03-2012, 12:59 AM   #13
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This is a fantastic discussion for me, because I toured a brewery this weekend and was making some mental notes along these lines but couldn't quite put it into words. They had two different pale ales, one at 40IBU and the other at 87IBU, and seriously the two beers were almost exactly the same. I'm wondering if they just didn't have a good grasp on timing the additions as well.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:04 AM   #14
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If you want violently bitter, put 90 or so IBUs in a 1.030 beer. That will be violent.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:06 AM   #15
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If you want violently bitter, put 90 or so IBUs in a 1.030 beer. That will be violent.
Oh my...

Violent, in this case, equates to unsinkable :d
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:07 AM   #16
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Oh my...

Violent, in this case, equates to unsinkable :d
Or even undrinkable? Anyways, I agree, but dude says he wants bitter beer face.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:07 AM   #17
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If he wants it super hoppy and bitter you'll need to change the malt to hops ratio. I'd suggest the most barebones grain bill you can stand and then use that as something to build on. Every character malt is going to add something to the final product in terms of flavor, mouth feel, unfermentable sugars, and body. All of these things also change your perception of bitterness. And 20% white wheat is way to much for this thing to be an IPA in my opinion, of course.

And this all got said while I was typing...
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:08 AM   #18
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Is this a recipe for Björk's favorite beer?
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:14 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by BudzAndSudz View Post
This is a fantastic discussion for me, because I toured a brewery this weekend and was making some mental notes along these lines but couldn't quite put it into words. They had two different pale ales, one at 40IBU and the other at 87IBU, and seriously the two beers were almost exactly the same. I'm wondering if they just didn't have a good grasp on timing the additions as well.
Some breweries calculate the IBUs (which can be flawed as we've discussed) and others actually test them with a spectrometer.

Besides actual IBUs, some ingredients will make the perceptible bitterness lower. For example- a beer with 20% crystal malt will taste sweeter than a beer with no crystal malt, with the same IBUs and OG. Also, two beers with exactly the same IBUs (lets say 60) but one with an OG of 1.040 and one with an OG of 1.080 will taste completely different- the 1.040 beer will be very bitter while the 1.080 beer will taste a bit sweet. It has to do with the IBU/SG ratio.

The IBU/SG ratio is very useful in formulating recipes. For example, in my Fizzy Yellow Beer recipe, the OG was 1.048 while the IBUs were 19.8. The IBU/SG ratio is .410. It's not bitter, but instead just has enough bitterness to balance the sweet malt. In my current IPA, the OG was 1.060 and the IBUs were 58. The ratio is .969. In other words, it's pretty darn bitter compared to the other beer- more than twice as bitter.

The ratio is actually more important than the actual IBUs, as a beer with 87 IBUs with an OG of 1.090 won't really be all that bitter. Not like a 1.045 beer with 75 IBUs, anyway!

I hope that all makes sense.

In any case, with IIPAs and hopmonsters, even the IBU/SG ratio goes out of the window because of the problem with calculating IBUs over 100. Either way, you should still make sure your IBU/SG ratio is over 1.200 but then don't worry about it. Just keep in mind that a high OG can take a lot more hops than a lower OG beer, so even though the IBUs may be the same (or vastly different) if the ratio is similar, it will have a similar level of bitterness.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:29 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
Some breweries calculate the IBUs (which can be flawed as we've discussed) and others actually test them with a spectrometer.

Besides actual IBUs, some ingredients will make the perceptible bitterness lower. For example- a beer with 20% crystal malt will taste sweeter than a beer with no crystal malt, with the same IBUs and OG. Also, two beers with exactly the same IBUs (lets say 60) but one with an OG of 1.040 and one with an OG of 1.080 will taste completely different- the 1.040 beer will be very bitter while the 1.080 beer will taste a bit sweet. It has to do with the IBU/SG ratio.

The IBU/SG ratio is very useful in formulating recipes. For example, in my Fizzy Yellow Beer recipe, the OG was 1.048 while the IBUs were 19.8. The IBU/SG ratio is .410. It's not bitter, but instead just has enough bitterness to balance the sweet malt. In my current IPA, the OG was 1.060 and the IBUs were 58. The ratio is .969. In other words, it's pretty darn bitter compared to the other beer- more than twice as bitter.

The ratio is actually more important than the actual IBUs, as a beer with 87 IBUs with an OG of 1.090 won't really be all that bitter. Not like a 1.045 beer with 75 IBUs, anyway!

I hope that all makes sense.

In any case, with IIPAs and hopmonsters, even the IBU/SG ratio goes out of the window because of the problem with calculating IBUs over 100. Either way, you should still make sure your IBU/SG ratio is over 1.200 but then don't worry about it. Just keep in mind that a high OG can take a lot more hops than a lower OG beer, so even though the IBUs may be the same (or vastly different) if the ratio is similar, it will have a similar level of bitterness.
While I agree with all of this... I think that terminal gravity is a very important part of the equation. There are many variables involved with TG but I think that the notion of BU:GU (Thank you Mr. Daniels) is a great tool to use, but a 1.008 beer with 50 IBUs will be very different than a 1.018 with 50 IBUs. One could argue that those terminals would relate to the OG, but I find that grist composition and mash temp play such a huge role in TG that comparing BU:GU from a purely OG stand point is flawed.


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