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Old 07-01-2012, 05:42 AM   #1
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Default English ale yeast hates me

I haven't had a very long history of brewing(over a year), but I have used English ale yeast a few times. This first time was WLP002 with a starter in a porter last year. The beer turned out excessively fruity, but I still consumed the entire batch eventually. That was before I had a keezer for spot on ferment temps though and fermented at basement temps. I probably overpitched that batch with a 3L starter though.

Fast forward to this year, I went all grain and used WLP002 with a keezer I purchased and used a Ranco I wired up recently. It has spot on temperature accuracy. I made a robust porter yet again. When I bottled it the uncarbonated beer tasted fine and had no fruity components whatsoever. I was feeling pretty good about it. I bottled and threw it in the keezer at 68 to nail the carbonation volumes I wanted for 2-3 weeks.

Now I open the bottles and I am getting apple skins in the aromas with moderate roast flavors. Taste is still pretty good, but I don't get how this could have gone fruity after all of my close monitoring with the temps throughout the entire process.

Long story short: I think I will be using american ale yeast from now on with really high mashing temps to produce malty porters and other higher finishing gravity styles. I have not had a single problem with off flavors from WLP001 or similar yeasts.


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Old 07-01-2012, 06:03 AM   #2
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I've never seen a whole lot of difference between American vs UK ale yeasts... Are you getting too excited and bitter about 4th of July?

I'd just keep an eye on oxidation, sometimes too much air when transferring might do that.

MC


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Carbonic bite? Is that like the bubonic plague?
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:20 AM   #3
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Three things come to mind:

1) English ale yeasts produce more esters so will be more fruity
2) the beer is still "green" and you have a fair amount of acetaldehyde, which has a green apple flavor. More time will age this out, though your best bet is to leave future batches in primary longer (how long did these beers sit in primary?)
2b) overpitching will result in more acetaldehyde
3) high fermentation temps will result in more ester production. What temps are you fermenting at?
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:08 PM   #4
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Try fermenting in the 60's for the first 10 days then bump it up a degree a day till you are at 70F. A week at 70F, with no sugars to eat, and the yeast will chew through the green apple flavor.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:52 AM   #5
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I love 002. But, you have to ferment on the low end of it's tolerance.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:06 AM   #6
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There's a huge thread on the topic of English ale yeasts, it's common with 002 that it will restart fermentation in the bottle and cause exactly what you're describing.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/bri...oughts-221817/
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLem View Post
Three things come to mind:

1) English ale yeasts produce more esters so will be more fruity
2) the beer is still "green" and you have a fair amount of acetaldehyde, which has a green apple flavor. More time will age this out, though your best bet is to leave future batches in primary longer (how long did these beers sit in primary?)
2b) overpitching will result in more acetaldehyde
3) high fermentation temps will result in more ester production. What temps are you fermenting at?
I used mr Malty pitch rate calcs so I had no off flavors up to bottling. I tasted the wort at bottling and there were zero fruity flavors. I all happened after bottling. I fermented for about 3 weeks at 65-68.

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Try fermenting in the 60's for the first 10 days then bump it up a degree a day till you are at 70F. A week at 70F, with no sugars to eat, and the yeast will chew through the green apple flavor.
I will definitely be doing this next time. I was sitting around 65 or so for 3 weeks I believe.

But as a conclusion to the story, things seem to be working out. I have been cracking open some more of it and the apples seem to be going away. It is getting more robust and chocolatey with time
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:36 AM   #8
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Wyeast, it's fruity in the right way. Saf-04 for a cleaner English yeasty and what the others said; leave it on the yeast in primary for a time.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spak

I used mr Malty pitch rate calcs so I had no off flavors up to bottling. I tasted the wort at bottling and there were zero fruity flavors. I all happened after bottling. I fermented for about 3 weeks at 65-68.

I will definitely be doing this next time. I was sitting around 65 or so for 3 weeks I believe.

But as a conclusion to the story, things seem to be working out. I have been cracking open some more of it and the apples seem to be going away. It is getting more robust and chocolatey with time
Sounds like you just had green (young) beer. Glad to know things are working out as it ages a bit.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I will definitely be doing this next time. I was sitting around 65 or so for 3 weeks I believe.
65 ambient in the chest freezer, or 65 taped to the carboy? If it's 65 ambient, the carboy was likely near 70, which will throw a lot of esters.

Try pitching at 62 and ramping up to 67 over a 3-4 days.


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