Hot ASS Saison

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wormraper

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I"m going for my first saison here... using this recipe by a fellow tucsonan

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/belgian-saison-extract-recipe-263610/#post3183751

only adjusting the recipe to exclude the Hallertau hops being that I forgot them when I left the LHBS

using 3724 as the yeast and leaving it in an 80 degree ambient temp house (swamp cooling in summer may suck for living in but it seems to be great for saison's).

my question is with it being this warm (gonna leave it near a sliding glass door to boost the temps a bit) would I be better off with the 3724 or the 3711 yeast???

also being that I've never added sugars to the brew before. when do I add in the 2lb's of table sugar? after boil, during boil??

last but not least. using table sugar instead of corn sugar so if my calculations are correct I should use 6.75 ounces of table sugar instead of 7 ounces of corn sugar for priming. Am I correct in my conversion?
 
Can't help with yeast question, I've never used those strains, sorry. But pounds of sugar should be added during the boil or at flame-out while the water is still hot enough to dissolve them. And as for priming sugars, I just stick with 3/4Cup unless you want more carbonation.
 
while i'm not familiar with the "ass saison" style, I can say that 3724 ferments slowly -- at least 4 weeks in the primary -- whereas 3711 will finish off in about half that time. the tradeoff is that you don't get as many esters with 3711. if you are patient, go with 3724. put in the sugar late, the goal is to sterilize it in the wort, but you don't want it to caramelize. i add it between 5 minutes and 0 minutes.
 
I brewed a recipe twice, once using the Belgian strain and once using the French strain. I preferred the French strain. Could be I preferred less esters.
 
I used 3711 for my saison twice with great results each time. Highly recommend the French saison yeast. No stuck ferment and sat at 80 degrees in my fermentation chamber for ten days then ambient (70) for three more weeks in primary only. It is the clearest beer I have made to date. Great little spicy ester profile matches the orange peel in added to the boil nicely.

You might get more esters with the Belgian saison but risk a stuck fermentation (apparently).
 
kewl, I'll use the standard sugar then. as for 3724 or 3711.... my LHBS only carries White Labs I found out and white labs doesnt' make a variation of 3711 (only 3724 which is WLP565). so I had to go with the Belgian strain. figured since I live in tucson I'll keep it inside at 80 degree average ambient temps and put it outside at night (mid to low 80's right now at night and pray that I don't get a stuck fermentation. Making a starter right now in a 2 liter jar (1 liter liquid with the vial of yeast) and will run that 24 hours so hopefully I'll have enough yeast to avoid a stuck one.
 
If your ambient temp is 80F that might be high enough to ferment with the Belgian strain. I wouldn't put it outside. I think that the temperature fluctuations may cause the yeast to stall. Keep it inside and just wrap it in a blanket or something to insulate it. That way the heat from fermentation may keep the temp above 80F.
 
Can't help with yeast question, I've never used those strains, sorry. But pounds of sugar should be added during the boil or at flame-out while the water is still hot enough to dissolve them. And as for priming sugars, I just stick with 3/4Cup unless you want more carbonation.
many people swear by adding sugar just at, or shortly after, the peak of fermentation (typically 2-4 days after pitching). the idea is to get the yeast to munch on the more complex maltose sugars first, then give them a "dessert" of easily digestible sucrose. folks who do this claim it can increase attenuation. makes sense to me, but i haven't compared it side-to-side.

and "stick with 3/4Cup" isn't particularly good advice. you should weigh your sugar. as you may have noticed all priming calculators give you a result in weight, not volume.
 
I've used both 565 and 3711 -- like others have said, you'll get way more esters and character out of the 565. It is really a beautiful yeast, as long as you have the time and patience for it. I would recommend pitching low, letting it free rise, and then boosting/holding it in the high 70s/low 80s.
 
I've used both 565 and 3711 -- like others have said, you'll get way more esters and character out of the 565. It is really a beautiful yeast, as long as you have the time and patience for it. I would recommend pitching low, letting it free rise, and then boosting/holding it in the high 70s/low 80s.

kewl, patience i can do (hopefully ;) ). just out of curiosity what does "free rise" mean?
 
just out of curiosity what does "free rise" mean?
Free rising refers to letting the heat that is produced by the fermentation naturally warm the fermenter. So for instance, if you pitch at 68F, the fermentation should be able to get you up to at least the mid 70s, if not higher. In my experience, it produces a balanced character. I think raising the temp in this matter is better than pitching and immediately heating to 80F.

Thank God for Belgian strains that can take some heat -- It's about all I can brew this time of year in Texas!
 
Free rising refers to letting the heat that is produced by the fermentation naturally warm the fermenter. So for instance, if you pitch at 68F, the fermentation should be able to get you up to at least the mid 70s, if not higher. In my experience, it produces a balanced character. I think raising the temp in this matter is better than pitching and immediately heating to 80F.

Thank God for Belgian strains that can take some heat -- It's about all I can brew this time of year in Texas!

gotcha, makes sense. yeah, that's how I was planning on doing it anyways. Just pitch it and let the ambient temps and the fermentation cause it to rise. I have a small addition to the house thta doesn't have any venting for the swamp cooler so it's a few degrees (at most) hotter than the rest of the house. that should get me at 80+ degrees most of the time ambient in there . and I understand your pain on summer brewing. the swamp cooler technique (rope tub and LOTS of ice bottles ) was the way I could keep temps down for my Hefeweizen I just brewed and even then I was about 71 degrees so I got more banana (which is perfect for me since I like a more estory Hef than a dry one)
 
I am trying the dry yeast version. Safale T-58, Belgian yeast for my saison. Anyone try it? Does it have a slow fermentation as well? Planning on fermenting two weeks in primary, one week in secondary at exactly 70F.
 
I am trying the dry yeast version. Safale T-58, Belgian yeast for my saison. Anyone try it? Does it have a slow fermentation as well? Planning on fermenting two weeks in primary, one week in secondary at exactly 70F.

I've used T58 for a Belgian Wit before. It fermented fast, probably less than a week at 64F. I think my FG was 1.012, so it will probably not give as dry of a result as a true saison yeast.
 
tbrown4 said:
Kicking around some ideas for my next saison, checking in here. Thanks for sharing!

Try using some Mexican piloncillo. It is like brown sugar, and it comes packed into the form of a cone. I disolve it in a pint/quart of boiling water and add that to the boiling wort. Gives a nice flavor.
 
well, been 3 days in primary for the saison using wlp 565 (same as Wyeast 3724) so I boiled a quart of water dissolved the 2 lb's of table sugar into it and added it to the fermentor after cooling it down in an ice bath. smells DELICIOUS just popping the top and adding the sugars in. my hydrometer broke so I have to grab one in the next 2.5 weeks so I can take a gravity reading at week 3

EDIT... HOLY CRAP.. fermentation took off again in less than 20 minutes. My airlock is bubbling at least 3-4 bubbles a second
 
How is it going? Still vigorous?

nah, after adding the sugar it went NUTS for about 12 hours then it calmed down to a bubble every 5 seconds at most. looks like those sugars were being gobbled up. Now I'm just waiting till the 3 week mark when I take my first gravity test to see how the 3724 has done and hope it hasn't stalled :D
 
took a FG reading today at the two week mark since i got my new hydrometer in. shocked as hell. after adjusting for temp I'm at about 1.004 for my FG. I honestly expected it to be stalled at about 1.025-1.035 after reading how picky this yeast can be. that 2 lb's of sugar sure did dry it out. This beast is as dry as a bone. all the citrus notes from 5 days ago seems to have vanished and is replaced by some harsher alcohal flavors and a serious dry taste. (of course I'm not worried or freaking out, this is green beer, aging and carbing will play a whole nother tale on this sucker just interested how in 5 days the taste can alter so much).
 
my wife wanted to taste what "green" beer tastes like so I popped a small 12 oz bottle for me to show her what non carbed beer would taste like. I was actually shocked. I primed and bottled 3.5 days ago. popped the top (beer didn't even hit the fridge yet) and it was distinctly half carbed already. Actually had it gush JUST a hair when I cracked it. now I'm worried that I might have bottled too soon and the beer needed to drop a few more points (was already at 1.004-1.005 when I bottled). Doesn't taste like an infection to me , taste is PHENOMINAL for only being 2.5 weeks from grain to glass.
 
I just had similar results, I bottled a pale ale style braggot on the 14th and could already see sediment in the bottles after only two days, and it had already started to clear really nice too so on day three, the 17th, I opened a 7 oz. bottle after chilling a couple hours and it tasted great and had good carb. Ten days grain to glass. It's hard, lol, but not going to drink any more of it til ~eom. Cheers.
 
took a FG reading today at the two week mark since i got my new hydrometer in. shocked as hell. after adjusting for temp I'm at about 1.004 for my FG. I honestly expected it to be stalled at about 1.025-1.035 after reading how picky this yeast can be. that 2 lb's of sugar sure did dry it out. This beast is as dry as a bone. all the citrus notes from 5 days ago seems to have vanished and is replaced by some harsher alcohal flavors and a serious dry taste. (of course I'm not worried or freaking out, this is green beer, aging and carbing will play a whole nother tale on this sucker just interested how in 5 days the taste can alter so much).

I've always had to pitch a pretty big starter with 3724 for it to ferment in a timely manner. Good to hear yours worked out well for you. The yeast really is something special when you get it to behave properly.

My last Saison with this yeast did exactly what you're describing here, except it waited until after bottling. It was also the first time I've had 3724 stall and take forever to finish, so that may have something to do with it. All my other times using it, despite finishing very dry, has tasted very similar to Saison Dupont. I'm chalking it up to maybe a slight infection introduced during bottling, but none of the beers that I've bottled since have had the same problem. Who knows.
 
I've always had to pitch a pretty big starter with 3724 for it to ferment in a timely manner. Good to hear yours worked out well for you. The yeast really is something special when you get it to behave properly.

My last Saison with this yeast did exactly what you're describing here, except it waited until after bottling. It was also the first time I've had 3724 stall and take forever to finish, so that may have something to do with it. All my other times using it, despite finishing very dry, has tasted very similar to Saison Dupont. I'm chalking it up to maybe a slight infection introduced during bottling, but none of the beers that I've bottled since have had the same problem. Who knows.

yeah, I pitched 1 liter of starter in a 2 liter container for this beast and did a 24 hour time on it. this beast CHEWED through it. after all the horror stories of Saison 565/3724 stalling out I was floored. not only that this is a 7.5% beer and it's carbing that fast??? damn.

as for the hot alcohol tastes. they're GONE. the citrus notes are there again with a nice mix of pepper and a VERY dry taste (2 lbs of sugars on top of 6 lbs DME will do that :D ).... mind blowing how good this beer is in less than 3 weeks from brew date. this beer can only get better :D
 
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