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Old 06-23-2012, 01:18 AM   #1
iambeer
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Can I use plain old white granulated sugar and nutrients instead of more expensive sugars and ingredients for a starter?



 
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:25 AM   #2
TyTanium
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No. It needs to be malt sugar. Otherwise the yeast get used to eating simple sugar instead of the more complex maltose.



 
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:28 AM   #3
iambeer
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Thanks. But what is the result/problem of the yeast getting used to simple sugars?

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:29 AM   #4
Natethebrewer
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Malt and hops give beer its "beer" flavor. its why hard cider doesn't taste just like beer but has the same kind of alcohol in it.
there are things like oatmeal (flaked oats) barley flour, corn grits, or Bulgar wheat that can be used as adjuncts.
I'd look for less refined or stranger sources for your ferment-ables, your beer will taste better

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Old 06-23-2012, 01:40 AM   #5
iambeer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natethebrewer View Post
Malt and hops give beer its "beer" flavor. its why hard cider doesn't taste just like beer but has the same kind of alcohol in it.
there are things like oatmeal (flaked oats) barley flour, corn grits, or Bulgar wheat that can be used as adjuncts.
I'd look for less refined or stranger sources for your ferment-ables, your beer will taste better
Wheat beer, barley, and rye beers all taste different. Apples taste different and usually use champagne yeast because those eat more sugar. What about if I used high maltose corn syrup? or high maltose rice syrup?

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:00 AM   #6
iambeer
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I guess this is another thing I have to try first hand. I'm not sure if I agree with the rumor that training yeast to simple sugar is making them fat and lazy.

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:57 AM   #7
TyTanium
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Not a rumor. It's science. The problem is the new yeast cannot as easily metabolize maltose so you end up with an under-attenuated beer. This isn't one of those "homebrewing myths"...university, lab and brewery experiments have shown this to be true. If it weren't, no one would go to the trouble of making a malt-based starter.

There are places to push the rules, but this isn't one of them, IMHO.

If you really want to try it, go for it. But one, or even a few beers, that "turn out fine" is not a robust data set.

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:00 AM   #8
emjay
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"fat and lazy" is just a (rather misleading) analogy. They lose the ability to produce the enzymes necessary for converting maltose.

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:02 AM   #9
iambeer
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According to my research (googling), it points to something called the Crabtree effect; something what happens in high concentrations of glucose will cause yeast to stop growing and instead turn attention to producing ethanol. But apparently, if the gravity is low enough, this shouldn't be a problem. Still searching for more information.

 
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:03 AM   #10
emjay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iambeer
According to my research, it points to something called the Crabtree effect; something what happens in high concentrations of glucose will cause yeast to stop growing and instead they will turn their attention to producing ethanol. But apparently, if the gravity is low enough, this shouldn't be a problem. Still searching for more information.
That's something completely different and unrelated.



 
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