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Old 06-15-2012, 10:26 PM   #1
sweetcell
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i will be brewing a 1.078 tripel soon (recipe). i will be adding the sugars at or just after the peak of fermentation - i.e. 3-4 days after pitching the yeast.

the sugars will be providing 30 gravity points. therefore, when i pitch my yeast into the malt-only wort, the SG will be 1.058 (1.078 - 0.030).

question: what OG should i plug into mr malty to figure out how much yeast to pitch? am i pitching for 58, or 78? part of a tripel's flavor should come from slightly under-pitching, but i don't want to under-pitch so much as to not have anything left to munch on two and half pounds of sugar.

thanks for your thoughts!
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:21 PM   #2
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You want to pitch to the total number of gravity points you'll be fermenting, so 1.078. Just FYI, 1.078-0.030 is 1.048, not 1.058, which means sugar is about 38% of your fermentables. 20% is more standard for a tripel and 30% is pretty high. What's your recipe?

Also, I've found basically no benefit to adding sugars later in fermentation. If you add them at the end of the boil, there's no need to add extra water for sanitizing it later in fermentation, and if you're mashing low, pitching the proper number of healthy yeast, aerating well, and fermenting at the correct temperature, the yeast will have zero problems chewing down to a nice low FG.
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Old 06-16-2012, 04:23 AM   #3
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d'oh. of course 1.078 - 1.058 is 20, not 30... i meant 20. my tripel recipe is relatively standard, so i'm going for just under 20% sugar. 38% would be gross.

my recipe is linked in my original post.

thanks for your insights on pitching for the total (higher) OG!

i guess that's the trade-off: if i do the late sugar additions in hopes of getting the lowest possible FG, i miss out on stressing the yeast during the initial growth phase (since in my case i need to pitch for 1.078 despite the fact that the yeast will be growing initially in 1.058 wort).
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- Drinking: ECY20 rye sour, local sour cherry kriek #2, Imperial Chocolate Milk Stout (half on vanilla, half on coconut), sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine
- Aging: English Barleywine on brett, 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:48 PM   #4
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20 points out of 78 = 25%.

Why the Carapils and acid malt? Many trippels are very simple; Pilsner, wheat, and sugar ......... so saying that, I added half pound of aromatic to the one I have going now. Mash low!

Is the Ardennes yeast a good one for a trippel. It is not too highly attenuating. Make sure you keep the mash temps down in the mid 140s.

I can't answer what is the right thing to do for your original question, but I always use the intended OG of the beer.

 
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Old 06-16-2012, 04:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daksin View Post
Also, I've found basically no benefit to adding sugars later in fermentation. If you add them at the end of the boil, there's no need to add extra water for sanitizing it later in fermentation, and if you're mashing low, pitching the proper number of healthy yeast, aerating well, and fermenting at the correct temperature, the yeast will have zero problems chewing down to a nice low FG.
This matches my experience and procedure.
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Old 06-17-2012, 01:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
20 points out of 78 = 25%.
when people say that a tripel should be 80% pils & 20% sugar, they're talking about weight - not gravity contribution. i actually have 18% sugar (by weight) in my recipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
Why the Carapils and acid malt? Many trippels are very simple; Pilsner, wheat, and sugar ......... so saying that, I added half pound of aromatic to the one I have going now. Mash low.
i find that a pils-only beer can come out a little thin especially when mashing as low as i intend to (148*) so the carapils is there to contribute a little body. foam retention is an added bonus that i don't object to. the acid malt is to correct for water pH, there are other ways of doing it but i like acid malt. so i guess the answer to "why the acid malt" is "laziness"! as your addition of aromatic shows, there is room for small deviations in a traditional recipe. anyone who objects to my approach is entirely welcome to not drink any of my beer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
Is the Ardennes yeast a good one for a trippel. It is not too highly attenuating.
according to last month's BYO special on tripels, Ardennes is indeed a good choice. i chose it on a whim, to try something different. attenuation shouldn't be too much of a prob: 3787 and 1214, the gold standards for tripels, have a listed attenuation of 74-78%. Ardennes (3522) is listed at 72-76% - not that big a difference. and one can get more than 78% from these yeasts by doing things like heat ramping, late sugar additions, proper aeration, etc. so i'm not too worried. plus, Ardennes is highly flocculent. i'm currently using is in a belgian blond and 2 weeks after pitching the brew has gone clear. i'll be re-pitching that yeast into my tripel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
I can't answer what is the right thing to do for your original question, but I always use the intended OG of the beer.
cool, thanks for your insights. have you done late sugar additions, or have you added to the boil? what has been your experience with attenuation?
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What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?
- Drinking: ECY20 rye sour, local sour cherry kriek #2, Imperial Chocolate Milk Stout (half on vanilla, half on coconut), sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine
- Aging: English Barleywine on brett, 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcell View Post
when people say that a tripel should be 80% pils & 20% sugar, they're talking about weight - not gravity contribution. i actually have 18% sugar (by weight) in my recipe.
Think about it ....... Weight of the ingredients have nothing to do with the gravity. While a lot of programs seem to work on weight, I think they are just wrong. ...... But for a trippel, I see no issue with 25%.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcell View Post
have you done late sugar additions, or have you added to the boil? what has been your experience with attenuation?
I use late additions for most of my brews. Even Pale ales. I partial mash, and use some simple sugar in most beers. I design my recipes to fill the fermenter to it's limit (to be safe from blow-offs) and then add the simple sugars later.

 
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