Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > How to fix too much lactic acid
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-30-2012, 05:44 PM   #1
llama_boy
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
Posts: 77
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default How to fix too much lactic acid

I recently brewed an American Wheat beer and had some issues with high pH in the mash. I used 88% lactic acid to bring it down but now I realize I've exceed the flavor threshold. The beer was moved to keg on Monday and the first taste is too tart. I'm looking for suggestions on how to hide or accentuate the sour flavor.

My first thought was a pseudo Sam Adams summer ale attempt using lemon zest and grains of paradise but how can I do this after it is in the keg?

Other ideas?


llama_boy is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 07:13 PM   #2
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mabrungard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 3,393
Liked 343 Times on 286 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

There are two parts to the flavor impact. The first is the acidity and the second is the taste of the lactate ion. You can neutralize the acidity with a bit of chalk added to the beer. But that still leaves the lactate untouched. I don't think you can fix that component.

How were you figuring out how much acid to use in the first place? Did you have a water report for your water? Bru'n Water has the tools you need, but you need to know what the water is before starting.


__________________
Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brun-...?ref=bookmarks
mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 07:20 PM   #3
TyTanium
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,949
Liked 551 Times on 388 Posts
Likes Given: 418

Default

How much lactic acid did you use?
TyTanium is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2012, 02:50 PM   #4
llama_boy
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
Posts: 77
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

I use RO-DI water and was flying by the seat of my pants with the additions. I took a pH reading and then added some lactic acid. Took the reading again and there was almost no change.. added more and again almost no change. On the third addition the pH jumped down.. guess I wasn't stirring the mash well. In total I would guess 2+ Tablespoons of 88% were added for a 10g batch.

Since this post I have added apricot flavor to one of the kegs and I must say the taste isn't too bad. Even the wife enjoyed it. It was having problems clearing so I also added some gelatin. This might just turn out okay.
llama_boy is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2012, 03:53 PM   #5
helibrewer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
helibrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 3,685
Liked 294 Times on 249 Posts
Likes Given: 77

Default

I've started using Phosphoric Acid instead of lactic.
__________________
Something is always fermenting....
"It's Bahl Hornin'"

Primary:
Brite Tank/Lagering:
Kegged: Sour Saison, Pale Ale, Aggie Ale, Firestone DBA, De Koninck Blonde
Bottled: Belgian Quad (Grand Reserve), Derangement (Belgian Dark Strong)
On Deck: Pliny the Younger
helibrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 01:31 PM   #6
Morning_Dew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 14
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Stirring may not have been the issue. This is the way pH behaves in water with high temporary hardness. It will come down slowly or not at all then "click" it will move by a large amount.

Also you used 30+ ml. That is a lot of lactic acid for a 10 gallon batch. Using RO/DI water with a typical American Wheat grain bill your pH shouldn't have been terribly high. In fact, I'm surprised it would be out of the typical 5.2 - 5.7 range. You may want to calibrate and check your pH measuring device.

Getting your pH correct in the mash is yet another step to becoming a fantastic brewer however it really isn't a deal breaker.

For example, if I come in high or low on a recipe I've brewed for the first time, I'll dump in a conservative amount of chalk or lactic. I then stir, wait a bit and pull a sample. That's it, I'm done for the day regardless of how the number changes. I just make a note of the original pH and the pH after I attempted to correct. Then the next time I brew that beer (if ever) I will make all those additions right up front (plus a bit more if my initial correction was a bit short.)

Morning_Dew is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 02:59 AM   #7
llama_boy
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
Posts: 77
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Good points. I need to start being a little more methodical.
llama_boy is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 03:04 AM   #8
emjay
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 12,712
Liked 1716 Times on 1604 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Honestly, a bit of lactic acid bite in a wheat beer is not the worst thing that could happen. In fact, it's a pretty nice thing IMO. If you can enjoy it and didn't brew it specifically for competition, I'd say just leave it.

Try using phosphoric acid in the future. Pretty tasteless, and I've found it to be significantly cheaper as well.
emjay is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 01:43 PM   #9
llama_boy
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
Posts: 77
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning_Dew View Post
You may want to calibrate and check your pH measuring device.
You were correct, the calibration was off by pH1. I now keep my meter stored in the proper solution and test it at pH7 & 4 before each batch. I now can really see the value in this instrument.
llama_boy is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 01:59 PM   #10
solbes
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ramsey & Akeley, Mn
Posts: 2,819
Liked 207 Times on 188 Posts
Likes Given: 101

Default

I have pretty alkaline water, for which I dilute with RO water. Even on a very light pilsner, I've never needed more than 3 mL of 88% lactic. I would get your self a pipette of some sort to accurately measure additions. I really like using Lactic. It works well and I have yet to taste it in a brew. EZWaterCalculator that is linked in this forum is an excellent tool to estimate how much lactic you might need.

If this is in a wheat, I'd call yourself lucky and enjoy it. I like tart/slightly sour wheats (I used WY3333 usually).


__________________
Primary #1: Empty #2: Empty
Secondary #1
: Blackberry Rhubarb wine #2: Empty #3: Empty
Kegged
: Dusseldorf Altbier II
Bottles
: Big 50 Barleywine, Framboise Lambic, Russian Imperial Stout, Barolo Wine, Berry Rhubarb Wine, Black Currant wine
On Deck: Border Crossing Vienna, BGSA, 2 Hearts IPA, Pumpkin Ale, RIS
solbes is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pH Help. Lactic Acid. Bonestar All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 12 06-23-2012 07:00 PM
lactic acid question repomanz All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 4 05-21-2012 02:54 PM
Lactic Acid....How Much!! BigTerp All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 11-11-2011 08:53 PM
Ug..Too much lactic acid hammacks All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 07-02-2010 01:14 AM
Sour Mash/Lactic Acid instereo13 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 15 06-03-2008 01:16 AM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS